Deeper Detectors and would you use them?

[Chef Geoff]

Just thought I would throw a moral spanner in the works and see what the general feeling was on the point of the possibility of deeper detectors.
With rumours circulating on the possibility of Minelab introducing a new model later this year and their recently registered patent for a multi stacked PI machine, which would make it the deepest Hobby machine (if indeed that is the market it's aimed at) available.
The rumours of 20" depth for a large coins would not at all be an exaggeration, and would definitely take us in to the subsoil on very many sites.
Now mine and many other people defence, "pro"s" for detecting is saving historical items from the plough soil, out of context and in danger of further damage by the plough and fertilisers. This of course would lose all it legitimacy by removing items out of context.
I personally am totally torn, part of me is saying, "yes get one just remember there are more things below detector depth than has ever been found" and another part of me is saying "If you love history,pack it in and join the Archi's".

So have a think and let us know how you would stand and, would your morals be shaken?.

[detectordave]

The problem with that is the size of the diameter of the hole, to dig down to a depth of about 20" the dia is going to need to be at least 2 foot.

[Tafflaff (Rob)]

Chef if you listen to some people they regulary take Georgian Pennys at 20"  Now  

No I cannot agree with any machine designed for inland use that can actually detect to 20"  that blows our ou of context defence out of the water, and could well signal Metal Detectings death knoll. Yes machines have got deeper and deeper over the years , but have always stayed in the plough depth.

[Chef Geoff]

Dave that's technical not moral it's a bit like saying "the reason I don't rob banks is because my car is to slow to make a getaway"

[Chef Geoff]

yes Taff i've heard them too but they are the same people who don't know the difference between 4" and 8", if you know what I mean. And yes I too believe it would give all the ammunition to the STOP campaign than they could ever need to ban the hobby.
But the question is....... could you resist buying one?

[detectordave]

Sorry i misread it but moraly i still think its wrong cos i would not dig a hole that size in a lawn lol,you are getting into the realms of removing items from subsoil and that will create big problems for the archies and as rob said could be the start of the end for detecting

[The Doc]

I'm with Dave on this. Will you be happy digging a hole that size only to find it's a bit of lead dross? I'd rather have a machine that I know will find everything in the top 6-8 inches than spend all day excavating huge holes.

Maybe I will be proved wrong when these machines arrive and we'll all be amazed at what we've missed on sites thought to be barren or worked out, but I'll wait and see...

As to the moral question, if these machines could supply ammunition to the anti- detecting lobby, then they could well be a bad move for the hobby.

[Chef Geoff]

That was a side step Peter, technical reason again. I may have to write a post explaining the meaning of the word morals

[Salty (Karl) Cardiff Scan Club]

But what about beach detecting?you could dig a bomb crater, so long as you back filled, there would be no trace by the next low tide
Personaly i have no moral affliction, i detect purely for the fun of it, If in doing so i find something of historical importance happy day's. I'm sure the the FLO will be thrilled weather it was 2" or 20"  
now whether you choose to believe it or not, i have found a ring at 18" with my E-trac, i measured it, i had a tape in the jeep, I nearly walked away from it as i thought it was a false signal (it was on my first outing with it), since then i dig many a deep signal in the hope of it being something good, i was lucky with that one. but it means i've dug a load of deep holes for very little so on a moral front, i couldn't care less, i don't think the archies would either if it meant presenting them with another Saxon hoard! from a personal point, its too much like hard work digging anything past 14" now.
Just my ten penath worth.
Salty

[16.5DD (richard)]

living in the area i do i would have no problem digging 20 inches as the soil is always deep and whats the hell is subsoil in carmarthenshire......??
now if i got to go where the subsoil was present i would tread careful like and assess on reflection to the situation.
i gave up on a signal in a roman site after digging in excess of 18 inches i lost my shovel call a few detectorists over they all confirmed it was a good signal, they put a pin pointer in the hole nothing, so felt it irrespossible to dig deeper and left it there.
i find some problems in the archs saying dont dig in subsoil as we disturb it ..
if we dont they dont know its got any history....
many places where subsoils ave been hit we have saved and recorded what they would never have found otherwise.
50/50 on this
great for beach

[The Doc]

That was a side step Peter, technical reason again. I may have to write a post explaining the meaning of the word morals

I suppose it was more technical than moral - but morals do come into it - eg would you jump on the bandwagon for a deeper detector short-term knowing it could lead to banning of the hobby in the longer term?

As far as the depth and context issue is concerned, I do not as a moral stance object to using a deeper detector. 99.99% of land is never going to be excavated by archaeologists so by having deeper detectors we are likely to identify more unknown sites which will benefit archaeological research. As long as finds are properly recorded, which I do support, then as long as we are not using detectors on scheduled sites I can't see the problem.

[nfl]

detectorists enjoy a mair amount of freedom in this country even though its always being challenged and 1 of the aguments for detecting is that we dont go below the plough level, now i think if a majority are digging 20 ft wide and 2 ft deep holes  that will spell the end of detecting, now some of you say if we found major hoards to show the flo then it wont matter,,,,,but the point is detectorists and archis in this and many other countrys have a word called context,,, you mess with context and i feel we may all be labelled nighthawks and then a compleate ban will not be far away...

[detectordave]

16.5D who said anything about subsoil in carms?

[delta196]

Could you really spend all day digging 20" deep holes, I know I wouldn't want to.
I'd rather dig 20x 6" deep holes and find 10x good targets than dig 5x 20" deep holes in the same time and only find perhaps 1x good target. Let alone the size of the spade you would have to lug around all day.

Basically i'd say a detector with a faster recovery but less depth is better than a detector with slower recovery and more depth as far as finds rates go.

[rjm]

Could you really spend all day digging 20" deep holes, I know I wouldn't want to.
I'd rather dig 20x 6" deep holes and find 10x good targets than dig 5x 20" deep holes in the same time and only find perhaps 1x good target. Let alone the size of the spade you would have to lug around all day.

Basically i'd say a detector with a faster recovery but less depth is better than a detector with slower recovery and more depth as far as finds rates go.

Agree with you 100% and what you put was going to be my post.

Most machines can't even pick up a coin near iron in the top 6" !!!!!!!!!    Most finds are in the top 8".

The heavier stuff like buckles will drop further but it can be hard work digging 18" holes all day. If Minelab do make a machine capable of finding a coin at 20" fine but it'll be interesting to see if the machine is affected by close iron.

Besides I have found coper pennies at 10-12" inches and I'm happy.