Silver Denarius found today at rally

[wayno]

JULIA DOMNA 2ND WIFE OF SEPTIMUS SEVERUS AD 193-211

OBVERSE: IVLIAPIA FELIX AVG,DRAPED BUST RIGHT

REVERSE: VESTA,VESTA ENTHRONED, HOLDING SIMPULUM & SCEPTRE

FIRST SILVER DENARIUS I HAVE FOUND

BIG THANKS TO ALL THOSE WHO ARRANGE THESE RALLIES SO FINDS LIKE THIS CAN BE FOUND

THANKS AGAIN

WAYNE (WAYNO)

UNFORTUNATELY JUST BEEN INFORMED IT MAY BE A ANTONINANUS OR A FORGERY DENARIUS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DIPPED IN SILVER. VERDICT STILL OUT

NEVER MIND STILL HAPPY WITH IT

[Chef Geoff]

Wayno, a lovely find and you are spot on with the inscription, but I was going on Neil saying it was a Denarius and presumed that's what it was, now looking at the colour of the coin (brown staining) and if that is accurate, then I have to tell you it looks like a antoninianus or a contemporary forgery of a denarius that would of been silver dipped.

[Val Beechey]

Lovely coin, Wayno. Great condition. Will look stunning when cleaned.

Val

[staterchaser]

Well done Wayne, it's a gem!

[jtalbot0001]

Hi Wayne,

I think that is a fantastic looking coin you have found there, well done!! I can't wait for the day to find myself a Roman Silver Coin!! You ask why I say silver, because I am happy to bet that this is without question silver, just naturally toned, and I wouldn't clean it, it looks fantastic as it is. It's detailing looks too good in my opinion to be a contemporary forgery!! I would without a doubt say it is the following:

Julia Domna AR denarius. IVLIA PIA FELIX AVG, draped bust right / VESTA, Vesta seated left, holding simpulum and scepter. RIC 391, RSC 226. Sear Roman Coins & their Values (RCV 2000 Edition) #7109!! Julia Domna was the wife of Septimius Severus.

Cheers,
Jon

[Meatslicer]

Nice coin, well done. This version of the coin would have been made in about 211 when Caracalla, Julia Domna's son was emperor. Thats why the inscription on the obverse is Julia Pia, beloved of Augustus, rather that Julia Domna Augusta which would have been on the coins when her husband Septimus Severus was emperor. He died in York.

The coins of this time had been debased to less than 50% silver because Septimus Severus had almost bankrupted the empire waging wars and paying the legions and there was rampant inflation. The fact that the coin you have is not silvery is because the silver content just isnt there. I think they debased the silver with copper but I stand to be corrected.

Eric

[geordiefred]

Thats a cracking coin Wayno, well done m8 

[Chef Geoff]

Eric even with the 50/50 silver split from this period the coin would in my experience, still show signs of it's silver content.
I think the red staining is a result of the zinc content, meaning this coin started off as a "brass" issue. Brass was the favoured copper alloy used in Rome for the higher base coins as it resembled gold when new. the lower denominations were of bronze.
I am wrong in saying it could be a antoninianus, as this started around this time but was originally in silver.
I think the safest way to describe it is by it's numismatic classification of "AE3" (though even this clasification is wrong due to it's issue date) .
It is worth noting that denarii of Julia Domna are quite common, however copper alloy coins depicting her, are rare and even more so in good condition. So this coin is probably worth a lot more than a silver issue.

The accurate ID'ing of Roman coins into their denominations is a minefield as they changed so much through the 370 years of the occupation, and many Roman coin types have no known ancient name, many being named in more recent times and grouped into types then sub-types depending on size. If anyone would like to try and get  to grips with the denominations then have a look at this website.
http://dougsmith.ancients.info/denom.html

[nobby]

Do you think it would be worth his while getting this positively id by the meuseum??

[Chef Geoff]

Personally I would say a coin expert/dealer would be the best person to ID it, as the FLO's tend to just call it a "bronze of" or Nummus, which by the way is a modern cop out as it just means "Coin".

[Roman (Ray)]

welldone wayno boy..lovely roman coin butty. so pleased for you mate.a great find yet again on a great ralley.again welldone fella.
ray....

[The Doc]

Here's my view, for what it's worth.

Without doubt, the type of this coin is a Julia Domna denarius, with Vesta reverse issued under Caracalla, c. 211-217.

As Geoff rightly stated, it cannot be an antoninianus, as these did not exist with this type, although antoniniani did start to be minted in this period (214 AD).

The RIC reference number for this coin is 391, and the Cohen reference is 226, but Cohen (in Description historique des monnaies frappées sous l'Empire Romain, volume IV, page 124 [Paris, 1884]) also mentions what he called in French a "petit bronze" with the same design. The RIC interpretation of this is a "base denarius".

So the ID of this coin, to me, is either:

1. A genuine denarius, which is toned and rust-stained.

2. A "base denarius", if such a thing exists.

3. A contemporary base-metal forgery.


I did see the coin on the day, and examined it with a glass. To me it did not appear to be a forgery, although it was very dark in colour.

As Geoff said also, this denarius of Julia Domna is fairly common, so if it is a forgery or a base denarius, then is considerably scarcer, particularly in this condition.

Needs to be seen by an expert for an opinion, for example Edward Besly at the National Museum in Cardiff.

[The Doc]

Oh, and whatever it is, I wouldn't attempt any cleaning.

[bobkoi]

well done lovely coin 

[jtalbot0001]

Hi Wayne,

A suggestion was made to get somebody from a museum to have a look at it, I would absolutely recommend Sam Moorhead to take a look, he is one of the UK's top experts in Roman Coinage, and he attends nearly every Rally where there is going to be high numbers of Roman Coins turning up, he knows pretty much every book at the back of his hand!! Email him some clearer pics with a ruler for size!!

smoorhead@thebritishmuseum.ac.uk

Cheers,
Jon