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Author Topic: A diary of my treasure process-(Rob) Tafflaff *UPDATED Valuation received B.M  (Read 12741 times)
Tafflaff (Rob)
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« on: November 09, 2009, 07:03:54 PM »

I've heard many many opinions and stories of the Treasure Trove process over this last year, many of which haven't been encouraging I have to say.

Recently I have been lucky enough to find my own potential treasure in the shape and form of a possible 12th Century Silver ring with what could be a Knights Templar design on it. I vaguely recognised the design as at the time I was reading The illustrated Davinci Code and have read loads on the Knights Templars. The other detectorists out with me that day - namely Waltonbasinman- (Paul) , Casa-Dos(Kev) and Coleggwent(Phil) alerted me to the fact it could be treasure trove - Good to be out with experienced detectorists!



When I'd finally stopped running around in circles with my top over my head - scaring the local animal and people population, It soon dawned on me that I knew absolutely nothing about the Treasure Trove process, so thats where this thread comes in, as I experience and learn the process I will enter it as a diary format below. If it helps people understand the Treasure Trove process then I'll have achieved what I've set out to do. If on the otherhand the ring turns out to be a more recent reproduction ring then this could turn out to be a rather short entry.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Diary of Treasure Trove Process


Friday 30th October 2009

Found Silver Ring on pasture in Herefordshire and it has been Identified as potential Treasure Trove.


Saturday 31st October 2009

After trying several times to contact the farmer by phone last night, I finally managed to get hold of him today and informed him of the "ring find". He was very interested and expressed an interest to see the ring "in the flesh" so to speak. We arranged a day and I went on to explain the process that would take place, to the best of my knowledge.

Monday 2nd November 2009

After a bit of Web Searching I got hold of Peter Reavill's E mail address (finds liaison officer for Herefordshire). I set about Emailing him some details and pictures of the ring, I also Emailed a copy of this Email to Mark Lodwick (finds Liason officer for my area based at Cardiff museum).

Tuesday 3rd November 2009

Reply from Mark Lodwick today as follows:-

Quote
Hi Rob,
 
Thanks for sending this through. The ring does look as if it is silver and the form suggests that it is probably 12th century (well over 300 years old!). The ring is therefore likely to qualify as Treasure under the 1996 Treasure Act.
 
Please could you notify the coroner of the discovery (Hereford coroner - D.M. Halpen, 01432 355301); I will collect the ring and complete the paperwork at the next meeting, unless you are in Cardiff before(?). I can then forward the completed Treasure Receipt to the coroner. I would be grateful if you could work out an 8-figure NGR or mark the findspot on the attached map.


Phoned the coroners office as requested by Mark Lodwick, they registered my report but have said they're happy to wait for the official report from Mark.



Wednesday 4th November 2009

Returned to Herefordshire today with Phil Coleggwent, met the farmer and showed him the ring. He and his wife were fascinated with the Ring and pleased to have an insight into their land. Returned to the find-spot with Phil and obtained its GPS position- This I Emailed to Mark in the evening.


Reply off Peter Reavill today as follows:-

Quote
Hi Rob,

Thanks for your messages via Hereford Museum, just stepped back into the
office after a couple of days leave - so sorry for the delay in my reply.
It would seem best that you deal directly with Mark on this as I am rather
a long way from your base in Cardiff. Mark will forward me anything that I
need to see. If you haven't contacted the coroner already it is probably
easiest to speak with his coroners officers who deal with all enquiries of
treasure. They can be reached on 01432 347 351 / 347 178. If you could then
deposit with Mark when you next see him all should be well. If you explain
that to the Coroner / Coroners Officers that would be good - otherwise they
will tell you to bring it to me

Did much else turn up from the outing at ****** - you know of the Templar
History in the area, but I have heard of Saxon finds from the area
but never seen them - it would be great if Mark (or I) could make a record
as we have so very little evidence from that part of the world and your
detecting could make a big difference to our understanding.

Anyway - If I can help at all let me know - contact details below



Tuesday 12th November 2009

Email off Peter Reavill in reply to the details of the findspot and Pictures of the ring:-

Quote
Hi Rob, many thanks for the images of the ring - what a nice find and
potentially really significant with the close proximity and documentary
evidence of the templars in the area. Glad to hear that you are recording
things with Mark, I'll keep an eye out for his records on the database and
if anything interesting turns up would love to hear about it. The area
could well produce material of any age but I have heard of Saxon material -
Looking at the maps it wouldn't surprise me if Bronze Age material might
turn up. I'm not about this Wednesday but If I'm in Hereford on a Weds
before Christmas will let you know and pop along to meet you.

Hope all is well and look forward to seeing some interesting finds soon



Wednesday 25th November 2009

Handed the ring in to Mark Lodwick tonight at the R.A.R.E meeting.
He had a good look at it and in his words the ring "is the real McCoy"
So thats reassuring. He also sticks by his initial Date of 12th Century.
He explained the process to me thoroughly and has said that he will keep me
up to date on any progress.


Tuesday 15th December 2009

Went to Museum of Wales today and met Mark Lodwick. He handed me a
preliminary treasure report. Tomorrow 16th December, Mark and the ring
are going to the British Museum in London, there to stay (The ring not Mark)
until the curator either confirms Marks findings or comes up with his own.

Without going into too much detail there is only two other similar 12th Century
rings of similar styling to the one I have found - one of these being a fragmented ring.


Thursday 24th December 2009

Received a letter off Caroline Barton today. Assistant Registrar at The British Museum.

They confirm that The British Museum is now in receipt of the ring and go on to explain the
procedure from here on in.

I'll itemise the process below:-

    • Examine the ring to ascertain the likeliness that it is Treasure


    • Determine whether any museum wishes to acquire the ring. If no museum wishes to acquire the ring it will be disclaimed and returned to the finder once the landowners permission has been obtained


    • If a museum wishes to acquire the ring a report will then be written for the coroner, part of which may include a 'non-destructive scientific analysis of the ring'. The finder will receive a copy of this report. A coroners inquest will also be requested at this time


    • The Coroner takes over from here and will make a decision as to wether the ring is treasure, who found it, where and when the ring was found


    • If the ring is declared treasure it then passes to the Valuation stage of which The British Museum is then responsible for.


    • Should the British Museum be interested in acquiring the ring for themselves the valuation will be taken out of their hands and passed to The Department for Culture Media and Sport.



    Wednesday 4th November 2009

    Received  a copy letter sent to the Coroner in Hereford today. The British Museum has agreed with Mark Lodwicks initial report of the ring and has requested that the coroner holds an inquest and inform British Museum of its outcome.

    The letter goes on to inform the coroner that a museum has already expressed a wish to aquire the Ring should it be declared as treasure.


    Tuesday 2nd February 2010

    I received a phonecall today off the Herefordshire Coroners secretary explaining why they'd been involved and the extent of the coroners involvment in the treasure process.

    She went on to explain that both myself and the farmer would receive a letter off the coroner which I needed to read , sign and send back.


    Saturday 22nd May 2010

    Received a letter offf the Deputy Coroner for Hereford today, informing me that they have now set a date of 25th June 2010 for the Inquest Hearing. It goes on to explain that I am not formally required to attend the inquest but if I'd like to I'd be more than welcome. Its a no brainer for me, probably will be my only chance to see through a treasure porocess in its entirety, so I'll be attending.


    Friday 25th June 2010

    Inquest went ahead minus myself today, typical waited months for the case only to have my neck locked up and unable to drive.


    Wednesday 30th June 2010

    Received letter off the coroners today, stating that the inquest had now confirmed the Ring to be treasure and that they had informed The British Museum of their decision


    Thursday 2nd September 2010


    Received a letter from the British Museum today confirming that they had set a provisional treasure valutation for the ring, this valuation will then be finalised in a meeting of the Treasure Valuation Commitee on the 1st October 2010.

    The following is the Provisional Treasure Valuation.

    Quote
    Basis for Valuation:

    The ring is in good condition and a shade earlier than many coming out of the ground at present. It is a fine quality object and perhaps interesting coming from the Welsh Marches. It has some local interest. I have valued it at slightly more than my initial reaction.

    I hope my valuation will not come as too much disappointment to the finder. What I have suggested reflects that it does have a element of interest to the local historian whic is a subject with a considerable following.


    In the absence of exact commercial parallels, most objects are unique in design, my valuation is based on my now more than 50 years professional experience in this field and on a close observation on the various coin fairs which I regulary attend in London. These lesser pieces tend not to appear, let alone be illustrated, in auction catalogues so a commercial precedent is hard (impossible?) to establish.

    Valuation 200










    [/list]
    « Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 04:44:48 PM by Tafflaff (Rob) » Logged

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    Kev
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    « Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 07:28:41 PM »

    great diary SIR TAFF, iv read that with great interest so keep it going for all of us to read
    and a great idea as well Wink
    « Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 07:56:49 PM by CASA-DOS (kev) » Logged
    Neil
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    « Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 07:45:01 PM »

    Great idea Rob - well done for posting the details. I genuinely hop you have a far better experience than I have had. It was all fine with me until the valuation! Grin

    Enjoy the probate hearing - you'll love it. If you want some company and as its held only 10 minutes from my office, I can join you if you like.

    Cheers
    Neil
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    « Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 08:15:04 PM »

     Wink
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    150aceboy
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    « Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 08:45:25 PM »

    Hope it gets sorted out quickly for you Rob Smiley, nice one, oh and Rob, after the valuation and payout . hope it's a MILLION Cheesy , mines a minelab mate  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
    all the best Ace Wink
    « Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 08:47:20 PM by 150aceboy » Logged
    bymatt666 (byron)
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    « Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 09:51:48 PM »

    great stuff rob !..this could be a good record of events for all us "potential" treasure finders !.. Grin Grin...i wish you well with this project....and the TT.....byron
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    « Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 11:39:36 PM »

    Keep it  going Rob,eagerly awaiting the next entries.
    Al Smiley Smiley
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    « Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 06:41:08 AM »

    The diary thread is a great idea mate, interesting stuff mate, good on ya !  Wink
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    PHIL YNYSBOETH
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    « Reply #8 on: November 10, 2009, 10:05:28 AM »

    I wish you well with your Quest Rob

    I know many have some horror storys to tell about the treasure Process

    Thanks for posting your treasure act journey

    all the best Phil
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    1morecoin
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    « Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 02:13:20 PM »

    One thing is for sure Rob, by the time the Ring gets through the system which will be about another 800 years the Valuation will be greater due to the increase in age of the Ring  Grin

    Just kidding it won't take quite that long im sure.

    Steve.
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    waltonbasinman
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    « Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 06:25:32 PM »

    I thought this was a good Idea Rob and you have started it off well and this will give a good Insight into the whole process of Treasure Trove. Well done fella
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    « Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 06:52:05 PM »

    Great write up Rob,well worth doing- the ring could be unique, often the valuation is the sticky point and sometimes its hard to get your own opinions/ valuations  across should you object to the initial valuation from the treasure valuation commitee - It may be worth contacting dealers and auction houses and sending them some good quality photos as soon as you know the age and  details of the ring well before the valuation meeting so you have a ball park figure of the value  and the evidence to present if  its required .Stay one step ahead  Wink Wink
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    you have to believe it to achieve it !!
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    « Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 08:35:57 PM »

    It is a lovely ring Rob,having been through the process twice any thing you need to know just ask,if i can help i will,As for time scale in Wales both mine took about 12 -14 months just for the coroners inquest to be held and then another month or so before the TVC made an offer,the first case i disclaimed the reward in favour of a certificate from the Department for culture,media and sport that took another 2 years to arrive lol Roll Eyes so it can be a very drawn out process.
    Just two minor points firstly it would be worth your while putting the 14 day notification to the Coroner in writting and sending it to him yourself that way he will have a written record,keep a copy for yourself and make sure its dated,secondly if the ring is silver which it looks like,any cleaning is ill advised as it could be used by the TVC to reduce the value,I'm not suggesting it has been wrongly cleaned but it is something to think about with Treasure finds and is clearly stated in the 1996 Treasure Act that finds of potential Treasure should not be cleaned,Hope that reads the way i meant it to and not as a lecture lol  Smiley
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    « Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 08:52:07 PM »

    HI ROB.
    THE RING IS A STUNNING FIND.
    I HOPE ITS AS EARLY HAS WE ARE ALL HOPEING IT IS
    I THINK IT WILL END UP IN THE MUSEUM ROB.
    WE.LL SEE MATE.

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    beachboy (viv)
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    « Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 09:17:34 PM »

    rob brilliant find (i would have loved to see you running around) well done on the find and a great write up.(viv)
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