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Author Topic: Provisional Treasure Valuation - Opinions please?  (Read 9417 times)
James
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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2009, 05:08:54 PM »

lol i had probs with the file size.
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The Doc
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2009, 05:38:00 PM »

I'm glad to hear my help made a difference James.

Neil - in order to get a better valuation, you need to be able to have evidence either of similar items sold on the open market, valuations from reputable dealers or details of previous similar rings that have gone through the Treasure Act process.

I challenged the valuation of my gold posy ring from several years ago by quoting previous TVC valuations, and the valuation was then increased.

I will have a look through previous Treasure Act reports to see if I can find anything similar.
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Neil
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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2009, 05:54:36 PM »

Thanks Peter and James. I really appreciate any help from you.

The only vaguely similar ring I have managed to find is in the Medieval Artefact book. They quote one in the 2004 Treasure Report as well - but thats described as a broken piece of a Medieval Ring found in the vale - no picture or value. I have not been able to find anything similar. which in my eyes should increase the value. Plus it was found in Wales with no previous complete comparison to my knowledge from Wales.

From day one the Museum of Wales have expressed an interest to buy it immediately and I feel they are taking me for a ride and trying to get it on the cheap. Mark Lodwick eyes lit up and immediately said the museum would want it when I first showed it tohim. Dr Mark Redknap from MoW told me before and again after the Probate hearing that they were keen to get it and I quote " I can assure you it will be regularly displayed as we have no comparisson at the Museum of Wales!"

I naturally presumed it would be a fair price, which the valuation clearly is not. I expressed that I wanted it to stay in Wales rather than disappear into the vaults of the British Museum.

Any help from any quarters on this matter would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks lads. This kind of help is what Detectingwales.com is all about.
Neil
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James
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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2009, 05:57:45 PM »

glad i could help neil.
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The Doc
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2009, 08:24:42 PM »

Not got far sorry Neil. Had a look through Treasure Act reports, and a lot of the silver rings from England get disclaimed, so not many have a TVC valuation. There is a silver 15th century ring in the 2004 report valued at 200, and another 14th century one at 300. These are both described as slightly distorted, but have more elaborate designs than yours.

Yours looks to be perfectly round, which is a plus. What size is it, because wearability will often affect market value?

Have you got a reference to which Christie's sale was referred to from 2005, because all the Christie's auction valuations are online?

Here are the rings from the 2004 report.
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altinkum
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2009, 10:45:16 PM »

anyone who thinks they'll get a fair market price off these thieves can think again the tvc have a long record of underpricing treasure item's. it's little wonder people are put off declaring items.  mike
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James
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2009, 01:04:43 AM »

Hi Neil not sure if i showed you this before but here is a ring nearly identical to yours found in the fishpool hoard.

The hoard comprises 1,237 coins, four rings, four pieces of jewellery and two lengths of chain. It was probably deposited some time between winter 1463 and summer 1464, during a rebellion against the Yorkist king Edward IV on behalf of the Lancastrian Henry VI, in the first decade of the Wars of the Roses (1455-85).
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hedgehog
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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2009, 06:00:19 PM »

It is a nice ring Neil and it's always a problem to know what it's worth, I think they expect people to disagree with the valuation but as Peter says you need evidence and with yours it's hard to get. What do you think a fair valuation would be?  400?
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Neil
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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2009, 06:09:45 PM »

Cheers for the hoard photos James - I had forgotten about that

Thanks Peter - I have the Christies reference - its on my desk with the letter in work - I'll PM you tomorrow - Thanks for looking - very much appreciated.

Hedgehog - that is about the sum I had in mind and I think it would be about fair all things considered. But, more importantly will it be known as the Woollacott Ring? Grin

cheers all
Neil

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There comes a time in every rightly constructed boys life when he has a raging urge to go somewhere and dig for hidden treasure.

Mark Twain 1835 - 1910

If anyone wants to sell any S c r a p gold or sovereigns, regardless of condition -  ask me for a price first please.
StumbledUpon
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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2009, 08:59:54 PM »

Cant help with a parallel Neil, but 150/200 seems a poor offer, I would think it is worth more, Very nice find. Smiley
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Neil
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« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2009, 09:35:39 AM »

Quick update - I managed to track down the Christies reference via the magic of the web to discover that it is in fact pertaining to a late 16thC - early 17thC silver gilt inscribed posy ring. Which is nothing at all like the one in question. Poor homework by the valuers in my opinion.

My letter contesting the valuation is heading off today. I'll keep the site updated on how I get on.

Cheers all
Neil
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There comes a time in every rightly constructed boys life when he has a raging urge to go somewhere and dig for hidden treasure.

Mark Twain 1835 - 1910

If anyone wants to sell any S c r a p gold or sovereigns, regardless of condition -  ask me for a price first please.
hedgehog
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« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2009, 10:06:29 AM »

Good bit of homework there Neil, after making a gaffe like that I am sure they will see sense!
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mole
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« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2009, 11:00:12 AM »

I,ve encountered the treasure process before !! when I found my hammered hoard  Shocked the arkies faces were a picture when the decision went against the crown  Grin on the basis of your story Idon,nt think they will be seeing me again legally speaking they have a duty to make an offer representing the true market value  Grin this leads me to believe the people involved the the valuation process are either inexperienced or devious maybe both  Angry Angry don,nt ask tell them you want a reavaluation  ;)mole
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simon c
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« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2009, 08:14:56 PM »

It is a very nice ring Neil,and as your aware, i am awaiting the out come on my own case of a gold mourning ring,which i found last August,so it is very interesting and informative to read the replies here.Good luck with a fair valuation.
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Malcolm.mtts
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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2009, 11:45:49 AM »

There is a saying... NEVER ACCEPT THE FIRST OFFER

Another saying... Bullshit baffles brains.

What I would do is reply to them saying that prior to giving it to them you had the ring valued by two antiques dealers. Just say they would not give you an estimate but both made a firm offer to buy it off you.

Say one offered you 350 and the other one actually went to 450 when you mentioned the first offer to him.

Tell them that based on the two OFFERS you received it makes their estimate totally unrealistic.

Due to the fact these dealers would sell the ring for a far greater price you want them to re-consider their offer to represent the true current value of the ring.

Say you would readily accept the an offer of 300 (or whatever you decide) from them because you would rather is to a museum than have a dealer make profit from it.

Worth trying.
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