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Author Topic: Roman Third Century Map of conquered land - look at Wales!  (Read 3307 times)
Neil
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« on: December 11, 2008, 05:36:35 PM »

When I was in Rome recently we came across a series of huge marble maps of Rome's Empire during the first 5 centuries. The 3rd Century map probably best depicts the situation at the high of their conquest and if you have a look at Wales, it shows that as the history books tell us, Wales was never conquered. The white marble signifies the Roman Empire and the black marble the unconquered parts of Europe, Asia and Africa. Nice to see that the Italians remember this and have not doctored the map to suit their own purposes. If anyone wants to see it themselves, I think it was en-route to the Collosseum up the main esplanade.

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Neil
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hedgehog
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 05:48:42 PM »

Looks like ordovician territory that? I remember reading somewhere that this was the area under the control of the druids at the time. The account stated that the romans would be in formation and usually about five of the attacking force would have stripped naked painted themselves blue and initially those five would attack a legion on their own (must have been high on something) and this scared the romans sh**less. In the same account it also said that if they met a lone ordovician then they would have to kill them because they would always fight to the death! There were also references made that genocide was the only way to deal with them, but by the look of that map the Romans thought sod that let em have their land!
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Neil
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 05:56:44 PM »

Cracking reply - Hedgehog! really interesting reading - do you know any more about the ordovicians - I had never heard of them.

cheers
Neil
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Neil
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 06:00:26 PM »

Think you may have the name wrong Hedgehog as the only refernces to  ordovician is as a time period according to wikipedia way before Roman occupation or even man.
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hedgehog
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 08:09:22 PM »

Dunno about that Neil pretty sure that the Romans referred to them as the Ordovices, would be happy to be proved wrong but that info has always stuck with me somehow , Silures in the south and Ordovices in the north, I can't remember who wrote it but was a prominent roman at the time and could have been one of the caesars?
Just googled it and if you look at the map it will tell all.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 08:12:47 PM by hedgehog » Logged
Jeb
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 11:11:25 AM »

I read it as ,Only Mid and North Wales unconquered ,with the exception of Ynys Mon.
Southern Wales "appears" to be in White. Or am i wrong.?
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 12:42:53 PM »

Very interesting map that neil, as Jeb say's it seems to show Anglesey as conquered, so it must be after the roman attack on Anglesey in AD57 when the Romans conquered the Druid stronghold of ynys mon(Anglesey).The central area of north mid Wales up to Anglesey would included, the Plynlimon mountain range and the Snowdonia mountain range so the Romans would have properly found it difficult to completely conquer and expensive so they may just have gone around it. As hedgehog say's the Welsh tribes were as follows Ordivices in north west and central Wales,Deceangli in north east Wales,Dementae in south west Wales, and the Silures in south east Wales, the borders of the tribal areas are very different to modern Wales and it seems the Ordovician lands extended well in to England.
Hope this is of interest.
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Charles Cater
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 03:45:26 PM »

If you go into this page there may be the answer to your question. It certainly looks like North Wales wa never conquered by the Romans, too many mountains not worth fighting over maybe I dunno?.

Deva (Chester) nine miles fom me, was built to contain the Welsh and a very nice programme by channel 4 started from why the land around Chester was chosen right to this period in our history.

But that is another story. Why on earth is everyone so interested in the Romans, they were no better than the Nazi's imprisoning, murdering and doing all other things and yet we revere them with our finds of the period, very puzzling.


http://search.mywebsearch.com/mywebsearch/AJmain.jhtml?qid=BD141E114D0E6BFFFAAD9D4065B69CEA&pg=AJmain&ord=2&action=click&searchfor=Life+of+Queen+Boudicca&tpr=jrel3&p=AJmain&ss=sub&st=bar&ptnrS=ZRxdm678YYGB&ct=RR&cb=ZR


« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 08:41:59 PM by Charles Cater - Wrexham - North Wales » Logged

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hedgehog
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 04:07:04 PM »

I suppose the interest in the Roman period is because most detectorists are likely to find something Romano British, I am interested in this map because at least they admitted (set in stone) that they didn't conquer all and feel sure that the people in that area of Wales at the time would have been very proud of the fact. I would be very interested to find more of the Saxon period , but finds from that era are like hens teeth around here. Anyone found much in Wales? Great post Neil.
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Jeb
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 05:48:38 PM »

Well! One things for sure. The Deceangli, the Ordovives, the Silures, and the Demetae Tribes certainly never had two halfpenny`s to rub together, Because they never lost ANY money.  Huh
 What a Major difference between them and the Dobunni and Southern England tribes who used Gold staters as wealth.
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Jeb
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 05:56:43 PM »

Charles wrote ,
" But that is another story. Why on earth is everyone so interested in the Romans, they were no better than the Nazi's imprisoning, murdering and doing all other things and yet we revere them with our finds of the period, very puzzling. "
 But Charles! you like Roman coins and artifacts! you told me so at one of your Club Meetings quite a few Moons ago. When on fond of the month ,my mates Gold William guinea was beaten into second place by a measily Silver Denarii of Faustina Jnr. And I was Disgusted by the clique voting that went on.
 You told me,............ "but we all like roman stuff here , & I voted for the denarii too ,"   Grin
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 08:42:40 PM by Charles Cater - Wrexham - North Wales » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 06:28:39 PM »

It was a fact, they did like Roman stuff but it does not mean I do.
It does not mean I liked the guys, I was well learned about the Romans and although they brought us civilisation in thier form it still remains that they used the Brits as slaves.

Gold too also seemed to attract attention  at the meetings. Of course there was a clique, it happens in all society but I can tell you this, that if Roy presented something which he thought I should have voted for I could not do that if I saw something else that interested me.
 It was for me a personal thing and that is how it should be.   

I was and always will be an admirer of ancient things, and that includes Roman Neolithic and other such artefacts and coins from times long ago.

If you give me your name I may know you.
It is nice to see you posting on this site and may it go on. Thank you.



« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 06:39:34 PM by Charles Cater - Wrexham - North Wales » Logged

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Jeb
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 08:46:06 PM »

Well Without Dwelling on the "past" matter Charlie I will conclude by saying. Roman denarii are resonably common to find . Far more common than a William 3rd Gold Guinea.
 I`ve been detecting 36 years and have never found a Gold coin . In my book ,its a rare achievment to find a gold coin up this end of the country. Yes some people will be luckier than others and find one, two , three or possibly more. That`s always going to be the case but When a young guy finds a Gold Coin and puts it in find of the month . I`d say normally It should win, at least Win when up against a COMMON faustina Jnr denarii. But not that night. Block voting saw to that . That`s why i resigned from the club. I`m not in any club now . E bay put paid to me wanting to be in any clubs.
BUT as i said that was quite a few years ago, and time has moved on . Its history in itself and is a bygone tale.  Grin I just do my own thing nowadays. Grin
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 08:50:21 PM by Jeb » Logged

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Charles Cater
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2008, 11:51:21 AM »

Let us call it a day on this subject. What has happened has now gone in to oblivion.
Let us use this for Detecting Stories or what it was designed for. eh !!.

You can always send me an email on any subject which you feel has offended you. Better that way.
Thanks for your post anyway, well noted.
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