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celticspikey
October 13, 2019, 02:09:26 PM
 PMd you Val
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October 05, 2019, 07:39:18 PM
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Author Topic: Medieval Ring  (Read 365 times)
celticspikey
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« on: October 05, 2019, 10:19:38 AM »

This little beauty came up from pasture. 13th-14th cent. Looks like a garnet.


* 20190920_180816-1024x2107.jpg (244.75 KB, 1024x2107 - viewed 465 times.)

* 20190920_180648-1024x2107.jpg (277.11 KB, 1024x2107 - viewed 427 times.)

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Val Beechey
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2019, 12:46:13 PM »

Paul, you jammy so & so.  What a beauty and it doesnít look damaged.
I bet your PAS man loves to see you.  Grin
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Johnboy25
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2019, 03:31:25 PM »

Well done on a beautiful find🤪
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celticspikey
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2019, 04:55:41 PM »

Paul, you jammy so & so.  What a beauty and it doesnít look damaged.
I bet your PAS man loves to see you.  Grin
Hi Val. My PAS man has seen it but I never handed it over to him at our club night I arranged to take it to him next week. However I have chosen to inform the coroner directly with in the 14 days this gives me more time to enjoy and get valuations prior to a TVC should that is a museum wants it. I may be lucky and get it back as they dont always keep rings, I will see.
Also my FLO Will Partridge of Wiltshire has caused eruptions which started over the All Cannings proposed dig a week ago, as far as I'm concerned and many other detectorists he's not to be trusted and in fact has very little time for us, so I will no longer record my finds. Detectorists has had phone calls to land owners asking them to revoke permissions....sneaky snake in the grass,  Angry Angry 
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Val Beechey
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2019, 07:11:58 PM »

That has always been a danger. Itís all open for public scrutiny and there is one group/company that constantly up-dates its records with, not only the find, but the exact location of the find. Last time I looked it was open day hunting anywhere in the country for £25.  And of course no research needed other than being able to read a map and offer good incentives to land owners.
Itís such a shame. The PAS was, or seemed to be, the answer to many problems connected to detecting. In this area it seems to have back-fired.
Iíve been hearing some really nasty, underhand things going on lately. One poor fella turned up at his farm permission to find other detectorists wandering around on a paid rally.  Cool Angry. The farmers prerogative of course but what bad manners. He had the fellas phone number, would only have taken 2 mins to tell him.
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Neil
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 02:11:53 PM »

Well done thats a thing of beauty. I have a guide somewhere to what belief was held by the colour of the stone. I will try and find it.

Back of the Net!

Neil
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There comes a time in every rightly constructed boys life when he has a raging urge to go somewhere and dig for hidden treasure.

Mark Twain 1835 - 1910

If anyone wants to sell any S c r a p gold or sovereigns, regardless of condition -  ask me for a price first please.
celticspikey
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 07:29:27 PM »

Well done thats a thing of beauty. I have a guide somewhere to what belief was held by the colour of the stone. I will try and find it.

Back of the Net!

Neil
Thank you Neil.  Wink
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Neil
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 07:53:47 AM »

This wasn't what I was looking for but you get the gist mate:

ĎGemsí, wrote Alexander Neckham (1157 - 1217), Ďare commended by the wondrous power of their virtues, their sparkling light, and the elegance of their beauty. I call them the miracles of nature, grateful gifts, a delight, a study and a reasure.Ē

Giovanni da Uzzano, writing in 1440, gives us the opinion of a fifteenth century Florentine merchant about the colours that were most esteemed in his day in precious stones. To quote just few of them:

Fine rubies should be like a pomegranate that is not well ripened, a good emerald will show greener than any other green it is laid beside, a good topaz is like shining gold, and most of them look as if they are split. A good sapphire resembles good azure pigment, and is on the white side, a good aquamarine is like sapphire, but more whitish, a good citrine looks like a peach flower. A good diamond looks like steel and is translucent like glass, and has sharp points, but another sort tends towards yellow, and a third sort looks like crystal, though in shape all three are alike.
 The value of the materials lay in their symbolic character as well. The beauty and purity of the precious materials symbolised heavenly perfection: the New Jerusalem described in Revelation 21: I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.... It shone with the glory of God and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.... The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.


 A specific literary genre of Lapidarium (from Latin lapis - stone) extensively treated symbolic virtues and properties of stones and minerals. Building on the classical heritage of Pliny, Solinus, and Dioscorides, the Middle Ages developed a strong and vivid tradition of their own. Influential early medieval authors such as Isidore of Seville (d. 620) and Marbode, bishop of Rennes (11th century) stressed the medicinal value of stones and minerals. Ecclesiastical writers concentrated on the spiritual symbolism of the twelve stones of Aaron's breastplate and of the apocalyptic vision of the Heavenly  Jerusalem cited above.  Lapidaries composed by learned university professors like Albertus Magnus (d. 1280) associated properties of stones with astrological phenomena and laid the foundations of late medieval alchemy and magic. All these compositions in one way or another discussed the intimate relationship between stones and their human owners or wearers.

A typical example of a late medieval lapidarium is the one by Raymond Lull. It starts  with a consideration of the six aquae minerales, their impregnation with celestial power, and their alchemical properties. The eighteenth chapter is devoted to the virtues and properties of the emerald, several of which are recorded as confirmed by personal experience. "We saw that as long as we carried it, we healed many suffering falling sickness. By virtue of this stone we also stopped tempests. . . and we tried it on exhausted travellers who immediately recovered from the labours of the long travel.' He prescribed its use for King Robert of Sicily, when troubled by a fit of violent madness, since 'the stone of emerald mitigates the one who wears it, and eliminates impatience from the human body, and resists the Devil, so that he cannot harm by a noxious temptation . . .' The twenty-fourth chapter is entitled 'On the virtues of carbuncle, or Ruby, and how it is the master of all stones.' Its virtues are many and powerful: 'If you wear it on you, neither spiritual poison can harm you, nor air, nor water, however poisonous it would be, nor even the sight of a Basilisk.'
The twenty-sixth chapter is "On the virtues and properties of the Stone of Diamond":


          This stone gives many wonderful virtues to anyone who wears it with dignity: this stone guards him safe from every dream, and reveals him the spirit of wisdom, and enables his intellect to scrutinise and understand many more things, and the divine causes of phenomena spiritual and natural: and it stops or prevents all intruding poisons and cures those whose heart is not strong enough, and fortifies them and, being a bearer of victory, it grants to the one who wears it a honourable victory  over his enemies, and it should be worn enclosed in silver.
 Another lapidarium, that ascribed to Sir John de Mandeville, stated that it often happened to a good diamond to lose its virtue through the sin of the one who wore it.
The fact that dozens of lapidaria in Latin and vernacular were in wide circulation by the end of the Middle Ages indicates how popular this reading was. Archeological evidence proves that ideas from the lapidaria influenced medieval tastes as much as the availability of  material. The choice of material for any given piece of jewelry was defined by its economic value, rarity, symbolism, aesthetic notions, and considerations of prestige.

Almandin, for instance, enjoyed particular popularity as a royal gem during the Great Migration Period (early Middle Ages).
 

In the later period, sapphire took over the superiority. 'The sapphire is the finest of gems, and the most precious and the most suitable for the fingers of kings,' wrote Marbode.
 

 After the serene blue of the sapphire the regal red of the ruby was prized, 'which shines so greatly in the night,' declared Bartholomew the Englishman (fl.1250 - 80), 'that it sends flames into the eyes.' The ruby proper was comparatively rare, though in the fourteenth century it rose in estimation above the sapphire; far commoner and less costly was the balas-ruby whose translucent red shows a blue tint and so was believed to be mined from veins of sapphire.
Emeralds and diamonds were held in almost the same high esteem as rubies: 'emeralds', writes Guillaume de Machaut in 1349, 'make every heart rejoice.'

Sapphire, ruby, emerald, and diamond were the essential repertoire of the medieval jeweller, though the diamond was less used in the early Middle Ages, only beginning to assume something of its modern importance in the fourteenth century. In jewels, as opposed to rings, where a much wider variety of stones was in use, they were the prime stones; even pearls, also highly prized in the Middle Ages, were used not as principal elements in compositions of gems and stones but to frame them, or to set off their pure depth of colour by the contrast of their iridescent white. The garnets, amethysts and Scotch pearls did duty for rubies and pearls in cheaper pieces.

It was commonly held in the Middle Ages that by their very nature stones and minerals had magic potential. For that reason, various gems were worn for prophylactic purposes: to detect poison, to assist childbirth, to prevent epilepsy. However, the magic of jewels bearing an inscription, sign, or figure was much more effective.

The medieval world inherited a large stock of antique cameos and intaglios. These were held in high esteem both for their beauty and for the supposed magic power of  their images. A special kind of lapidarium treated engraved gems and attributed magical virtues to them:


If you find a seal sculpted in black agate that depicts a man, naked and swollen, and another one, well-dressed and crowned, and he holds a chalice in one hand and a plant-branch in another, fit  it into any ring, and anyone with fever who wears this ring will be healed in three days.
 Engraved gems were, consequently, in demand for personal ornaments to be constantly worn. The classical subjects of antique engraved gemstones were often interpreted in the light of Christian iconography.
 
Another way to reinforce the magic of a stone was to inscribe it with a "name of power" or a wonder-working formula:

If you inscribe a ring with the letters T. B. L. N. C. H. V. S. H. A. , it will keep your body intact and safe from any sickness, and mainly from fever and dropsy. In purchases it brings luck, it makes its bearer able and lovable in war and in litigations and in peace and grants him superiority and victory. It helps women in conception and birth. It gives its owner and wearer peace and harmony and wealth, provided that it is worn chastely and honestly.
 Thomas Aqunas considered the question whether it was permissible to wear divine words suspended from the neck and decided that it was only allowed if no evil spirits were invoked in the talisman, if the legend contained no incomprehensible words, if there were no deceit and no other agency believed in than the power of God, and if no other character was used than the sign of the Cross, and no faith was placed in the manner in which the talisman was inscribed. In most cases magic inscriptions on medieval jewels went far beyond the limits of the permissible as defined by the Angelic Doctor.
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There comes a time in every rightly constructed boys life when he has a raging urge to go somewhere and dig for hidden treasure.

Mark Twain 1835 - 1910

If anyone wants to sell any S c r a p gold or sovereigns, regardless of condition -  ask me for a price first please.
Greg
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 10:26:14 AM »

That has always been a danger. Itís all open for public scrutiny and there is one group/company that constantly up-dates its records with, not only the find, but the exact location of the find. Last time I looked it was open day hunting anywhere in the country for £25.  And of course no research needed other than being able to read a map and offer good incentives to land owners.
Itís such a shame. The PAS was, or seemed to be, the answer to many problems connected to detecting. In this area it seems to have back-fired.
Iíve been hearing some really nasty, underhand things going on lately. One poor fella turned up at his farm permission to find other detectorists wandering around on a paid rally.  Cool Angry. The farmers prerogative of course but what bad manners. He had the fellas phone number, would only have taken 2 mins to tell him.

Itís a shame, I think PAS is all but dead in Wales, we have one person for the whole of Wales to look after the identification and recording of our items, they take months to be returned and then you find that very few are recorded under the PAS Database, and now I hear that the person responsible is moving on. Itís very frustrating.

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Val Beechey
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2019, 01:18:52 PM »

I do agree Greg. Iím a bit out of touch with whatís going on with PAS. We did have 3 Reps. have they gone ?
Unbelievably the first things I recorded 3years ago still arenít showing on a search.
But, I hope you noticed that they were on it like Sonic when Mike Smith found the Saxon Burial.
I donít mind admitting Iíd be reluctant, like Paul, to record a thing. Maybe revert to the old ways, finders keepers  Shocked. Not likely to happen though, not going out much these days and I donít think thereís a hoard of anything in my field. Unless you count car parts  Grin
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relicron
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2019, 05:51:01 PM »

well that is stunning paul,well done on you,cracking find,
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celticspikey
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2019, 03:47:57 PM »

well that is stunning paul,well done on you,cracking find,

Cheers mate I still got the ring, I wrote to the coroner so its been reported within the 14 days. E mailed the Somerset FLO as I wont go threw the Wilshire one out of principal, no one's got back to me though. Not that worried I won't be chasing them I've done my legal duty, gives me more time to look at it..  Grin Wink
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celticspikey
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2019, 03:49:12 PM »

This wasn't what I was looking for but you get the gist mate:

ĎGemsí, wrote Alexander Neckham (1157 - 1217), Ďare commended by the wondrous power of their virtues, their sparkling light, and the elegance of their beauty. I call them the miracles of nature, grateful gifts, a delight, a study and a reasure.Ē

Giovanni da Uzzano, writing in 1440, gives us the opinion of a fifteenth century Florentine merchant about the colours that were most esteemed in his day in precious stones. To quote just few of them:

Fine rubies should be like a pomegranate that is not well ripened, a good emerald will show greener than any other green it is laid beside, a good topaz is like shining gold, and most of them look as if they are split. A good sapphire resembles good azure pigment, and is on the white side, a good aquamarine is like sapphire, but more whitish, a good citrine looks like a peach flower. A good diamond looks like steel and is translucent like glass, and has sharp points, but another sort tends towards yellow, and a third sort looks like crystal, though in shape all three are alike.
 The value of the materials lay in their symbolic character as well. The beauty and purity of the precious materials symbolised heavenly perfection: the New Jerusalem described in Revelation 21: I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.... It shone with the glory of God and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.... The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.


 A specific literary genre of Lapidarium (from Latin lapis - stone) extensively treated symbolic virtues and properties of stones and minerals. Building on the classical heritage of Pliny, Solinus, and Dioscorides, the Middle Ages developed a strong and vivid tradition of their own. Influential early medieval authors such as Isidore of Seville (d. 620) and Marbode, bishop of Rennes (11th century) stressed the medicinal value of stones and minerals. Ecclesiastical writers concentrated on the spiritual symbolism of the twelve stones of Aaron's breastplate and of the apocalyptic vision of the Heavenly  Jerusalem cited above.  Lapidaries composed by learned university professors like Albertus Magnus (d. 1280) associated properties of stones with astrological phenomena and laid the foundations of late medieval alchemy and magic. All these compositions in one way or another discussed the intimate relationship between stones and their human owners or wearers.

A typical example of a late medieval lapidarium is the one by Raymond Lull. It starts  with a consideration of the six aquae minerales, their impregnation with celestial power, and their alchemical properties. The eighteenth chapter is devoted to the virtues and properties of the emerald, several of which are recorded as confirmed by personal experience. "We saw that as long as we carried it, we healed many suffering falling sickness. By virtue of this stone we also stopped tempests. . . and we tried it on exhausted travellers who immediately recovered from the labours of the long travel.' He prescribed its use for King Robert of Sicily, when troubled by a fit of violent madness, since 'the stone of emerald mitigates the one who wears it, and eliminates impatience from the human body, and resists the Devil, so that he cannot harm by a noxious temptation . . .' The twenty-fourth chapter is entitled 'On the virtues of carbuncle, or Ruby, and how it is the master of all stones.' Its virtues are many and powerful: 'If you wear it on you, neither spiritual poison can harm you, nor air, nor water, however poisonous it would be, nor even the sight of a Basilisk.'
The twenty-sixth chapter is "On the virtues and properties of the Stone of Diamond":


          This stone gives many wonderful virtues to anyone who wears it with dignity: this stone guards him safe from every dream, and reveals him the spirit of wisdom, and enables his intellect to scrutinise and understand many more things, and the divine causes of phenomena spiritual and natural: and it stops or prevents all intruding poisons and cures those whose heart is not strong enough, and fortifies them and, being a bearer of victory, it grants to the one who wears it a honourable victory  over his enemies, and it should be worn enclosed in silver.
 Another lapidarium, that ascribed to Sir John de Mandeville, stated that it often happened to a good diamond to lose its virtue through the sin of the one who wore it.
The fact that dozens of lapidaria in Latin and vernacular were in wide circulation by the end of the Middle Ages indicates how popular this reading was. Archeological evidence proves that ideas from the lapidaria influenced medieval tastes as much as the availability of  material. The choice of material for any given piece of jewelry was defined by its economic value, rarity, symbolism, aesthetic notions, and considerations of prestige.

Almandin, for instance, enjoyed particular popularity as a royal gem during the Great Migration Period (early Middle Ages).
 

In the later period, sapphire took over the superiority. 'The sapphire is the finest of gems, and the most precious and the most suitable for the fingers of kings,' wrote Marbode.
 

 After the serene blue of the sapphire the regal red of the ruby was prized, 'which shines so greatly in the night,' declared Bartholomew the Englishman (fl.1250 - 80), 'that it sends flames into the eyes.' The ruby proper was comparatively rare, though in the fourteenth century it rose in estimation above the sapphire; far commoner and less costly was the balas-ruby whose translucent red shows a blue tint and so was believed to be mined from veins of sapphire.
Emeralds and diamonds were held in almost the same high esteem as rubies: 'emeralds', writes Guillaume de Machaut in 1349, 'make every heart rejoice.'

Sapphire, ruby, emerald, and diamond were the essential repertoire of the medieval jeweller, though the diamond was less used in the early Middle Ages, only beginning to assume something of its modern importance in the fourteenth century. In jewels, as opposed to rings, where a much wider variety of stones was in use, they were the prime stones; even pearls, also highly prized in the Middle Ages, were used not as principal elements in compositions of gems and stones but to frame them, or to set off their pure depth of colour by the contrast of their iridescent white. The garnets, amethysts and Scotch pearls did duty for rubies and pearls in cheaper pieces.

It was commonly held in the Middle Ages that by their very nature stones and minerals had magic potential. For that reason, various gems were worn for prophylactic purposes: to detect poison, to assist childbirth, to prevent epilepsy. However, the magic of jewels bearing an inscription, sign, or figure was much more effective.

The medieval world inherited a large stock of antique cameos and intaglios. These were held in high esteem both for their beauty and for the supposed magic power of  their images. A special kind of lapidarium treated engraved gems and attributed magical virtues to them:


If you find a seal sculpted in black agate that depicts a man, naked and swollen, and another one, well-dressed and crowned, and he holds a chalice in one hand and a plant-branch in another, fit  it into any ring, and anyone with fever who wears this ring will be healed in three days.
 Engraved gems were, consequently, in demand for personal ornaments to be constantly worn. The classical subjects of antique engraved gemstones were often interpreted in the light of Christian iconography.
 
Another way to reinforce the magic of a stone was to inscribe it with a "name of power" or a wonder-working formula:

If you inscribe a ring with the letters T. B. L. N. C. H. V. S. H. A. , it will keep your body intact and safe from any sickness, and mainly from fever and dropsy. In purchases it brings luck, it makes its bearer able and lovable in war and in litigations and in peace and grants him superiority and victory. It helps women in conception and birth. It gives its owner and wearer peace and harmony and wealth, provided that it is worn chastely and honestly.
 Thomas Aqunas considered the question whether it was permissible to wear divine words suspended from the neck and decided that it was only allowed if no evil spirits were invoked in the talisman, if the legend contained no incomprehensible words, if there were no deceit and no other agency believed in than the power of God, and if no other character was used than the sign of the Cross, and no faith was placed in the manner in which the talisman was inscribed. In most cases magic inscriptions on medieval jewels went far beyond the limits of the permissible as defined by the Angelic Doctor.
Wow  Cheesy I needed my good glasses on for that read Neil. Thank you mate. Wink
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roughneck
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2019, 01:27:37 PM »

Wow!!!!  Paul.  That's a beautiful piece of jewellery .  I think we all understand where you are coming from with regard to the PAS and an over ambitious FLO.  Yours and other stories really do make us think about should we tell anyone where we find an item or indeed if we find an item in the first place.  As we can see from forums and FB etc, not many of the thousands of detectorists ever post details of finds.  Makes me wonder just what isn't being reported?
Anyway, we all hope you keep finding and posting, if it's only to make everyone else green with envy. 
Cheers and Happy Digging !!.   Tom
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