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Author Topic: Alnage seal  (Read 5527 times)
Chef Geoff
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« on: October 31, 2011, 09:53:52 PM »
Before today I have only ever found two complete cloth seals, both of which were Queen Anne and thus quite easy to id. Then today I found no3 which I can't track down or what the quarter mark means. Any thoughts Huh
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The Doc
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 11:34:35 PM »
These seem to be commonest from the reign of Anne, and after her, George I. This however looks like Charles II or William III. Can you make out any more of the legend - looks to read    '..ORE...' ?
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Chef Geoff
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 12:02:16 AM »
Well looking at it under the microscope,I'm tempted to say it's "NG", which would make it Oreng, I'm wondering if this could be a corruption of Orange for William III. I am pretty sure it's an N but I could be being lead by what I know, rather than what it says. Huh
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jtalbot0001
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 10:14:23 AM »
Hey Chef, nice find by the way. Not that I know anything about these things, but after browsing around, my conclusion would be that this one is from George 1st. I say this for the following reasons. First it seems they kept the orientation of monarchs the same as that of coins. Now there is a taxation mark applied to the seal, which was abolished in 1724, so from this we can work backwards and say this could be George 1st, William 3rd or Charles 2nd. Also it seems they abbreviated the legends of monarchs in most cases (when applied of course!) [Anne is a verry good example, normally it is "AN"] in order for it to all fit on the small seal. Now by just looking at your picture, and from what can be easily seen, we have "ORE". Now surely if this is the abbreviation for a king, then this could only fit in with George 1st! And if I am not mistaken, there is a "X" after the letter "E" so I'm sure it must say "[G]ORE[X]" for King George. So they paid a Farthing in taxation, read this, from UKDFD "The ’Alnage’ was a tax levied on cloth, and the purpose of the alnage seal was to provide evidence that the tax had been paid and the cloth was legally saleable. The seals were applied by officials (’Alnagers’) appointed by the government to oversee the process."
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 10:21:55 AM »
this is the earliest i got 1500-1650

* HESH-8D5246(1) (Copy).JPG (57.71 KB, 800x340 - viewed 540 times.)
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2012 finds
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24 other silver coins pre 1947
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half noble coin weight
3 silver roman
celtic broach
celtic terret ring
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The Doc
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 08:38:55 PM »
Quote from: jtalbot0001 on November 01, 2011, 10:14:23 AM
Hey Chef, nice find by the way. Not that I know anything about these things, but after browsing around, my conclusion would be that this one is from George 1st. I say this for the following reasons. First it seems they kept the orientation of monarchs the same as that of coins. Now there is a taxation mark applied to the seal, which was abolished in 1724, so from this we can work backwards and say this could be George 1st, William 3rd or Charles 2nd. Also it seems they abbreviated the legends of monarchs in most cases (when applied of course!) [Anne is a verry good example, normally it is "AN"] in order for it to all fit on the small seal. Now by just looking at your picture, and from what can be easily seen, we have "ORE". Now surely if this is the abbreviation for a king, then this could only fit in with George 1st! And if I am not mistaken, there is a "X" after the letter "E" so I'm sure it must say "[G]ORE[X]" for King George. So they paid a Farthing in taxation, read this, from UKDFD "The ’Alnage’ was a tax levied on cloth, and the purpose of the alnage seal was to provide evidence that the tax had been paid and the cloth was legally saleable. The seals were applied by officials (’Alnagers’) appointed by the government to oversee the process."

Nice detective work Jon, but the problem is, the bust is not George I!
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Chef Geoff
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 09:15:50 PM »
Well if I had to go by " most looks like" then I would have to say Charles II is the best candidate given the size of the nose and the Habsburg lip.
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Val Beechey
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 09:22:08 PM »
Is he one of ours ?? he looks very Grecian.

Val
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The Doc
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2015, 10:14:32 PM »
I've just had an update from Stuart Elton, the Bag Seal king!

As follows:

The inscription is OF ENG LAND and the bust could be Charles II or William III as you say or even James II - http://www.bagseals.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=12540 as a similar portrait was used for all three!

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Dryland
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2015, 10:46:49 PM »
Well found Geoff, it's amazing how much info can be gathered from something so small
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Val Beechey
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2015, 10:55:24 PM »
Especially if you can wait 4 years   Roll Eyes Grin
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Ever Optimistic, it's out there somewhere - And I Found it
Chef Geoff
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 12:04:50 AM »
Good God Peter talk about a dog with a bone that was 4 years ago lol, well done you and thank you Wink
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