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Author Topic: Ban find cheats  (Read 16738 times)
ysbytymike
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« on: September 25, 2012, 11:22:36 PM »

Reading comments on another thread about people taking finds to rallies then claiming them as legitimate finds is reaching ridiculous levels. I don't know about other people but I find this very disheartening when attending events. You work hard all day, then you get these people taking finds to events and claiming them as 'legit', thus negating all the hard effort 99.9% of attendees will have put into the day.

Eventually I see all finds being suspect thus effectively destroying all the efforts of the organisers to reward the attendees and all because of a few very sad people, desperately seeking attention.
What do they achieve by doing this? Their only fooling themselves and if caught, ruin there reputation amongst other member of the detecting fraternity for ever, as they'll always be known from that day on as a cheat and any legitimate find they might make will be treated with contempt.
I believe that we need to keep our own house in order. In other words, 'anybody' found submitting false finds should be banned from their club.. No arguments. No appeal. That's the only way to
bring back credibility and enable people (some travelling great distances to attend these events) feel their playing on a level playing field.
Too many clubs and organisations are just 'tut tutting' and sweeping it under the rug so to speak. I'm afraid its like bullying.. If you don't make a stand it 'always gets worse the longer its left'.

Ysbyty
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Chef Geoff
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 06:12:18 AM »

I agree with you Mike, it does seem to be on the rise but it's gone on as long as I've been detecting. I'm not sure if banning would be a little too far though and feel naming and shaming (after a warning) would probably make the offenders disappear anyway.
It only angers me in the sense that these people are taking me for a fool though and if they need to do it for some sort self glorification then as far as I'm concerned..carry on. At the end of the day it's not a sport or competitive in any way and when I find something nice I give thanks how lucky I was to walk over it and not how good I am. As I've said on a few occasions before "there are no good detectorists, only normal and bad ones, as it's the machines that finds things not us and a "normal" detectorist is the one who has learned his machine inside-out". Wink
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 07:14:36 AM by Chef Geoff » Logged
ctx3030
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 07:00:53 AM »

it is a bit like the people who run rallies," never been detected before" now they really get up my nose ." all for charity" time we all woke up to the greedy individuals who take us for a ride, but like lambs to the slaughter, we do it time after time, must be the biggest mug hobby about.
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Neil
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 07:57:16 AM »

I have always found this practice peculiar to say the least, and clearly an attention seeking exercise. I have no problem with people collecting and purchasing coins and artefacts - I do it myself, but why pretend you've just found it? I don't think I would ban anyone over it as at the end of the day they are only fooling themselves. The bit I find annoying is that it changes the context of the land and hence the rally through misdirection.

Thankfully we don't see too many of these on DW rallies, although I have had my doubts on the odd occasion.

On the other boot, following three rallies out of four where I had found a hammered coin (a shocking statistic for me Shocked). I had someone implying that I was bringing them with me to boost the find rate and he wasn't joking! I put it down to envy and the person being a prat - he knows who he is.

Interesting topic

Cheers
Neil
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:09:15 AM by Neil » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 08:12:02 AM »

I was at a rally near Yeovil several years ago and a particular person kept bringing superb finds to the FLO, ( this was a time when having FLO on site had just begun). There were many whispers going around that he had been observed at other rallies doing the same and it was virtually certain he was bringing it all with him. I spoke to the FLO and and she auured me that there was doubt about most of the finds as they had no relation to known historical findings for the area, especially a Roman coin from a ruler who had never been in the area. When he came back the second time with loads of 'hammies', the murmurs grew, so I confronted him and accused him of bringing it all with him according to the whispers going around. He and his wife then stated; 'This always happens wherever we go, we won't be coming again' , They did not deny their actions. I was thanked later by others present for taking the courage to speak out, could have gone bad though,
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 03:50:44 PM by anthonyjay » Logged
ysbytymike
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 08:16:46 AM »

I agree with you Mike, it does seem to be on the rise but it's gone on as long as I've been detecting. I'm not sure if banning would be a little too far though and feel naming and shaming (after a warning) would probably make the offenders disappear anyway.
It only angers me in the sense that these people are taking me for a fool though and if they need to do it for some sort self glorification then as far as I'm concerned..carry on. At the end of the day it's not a sport or competitive in any way and when I find something nice I give thanks how lucky I was to walk over it and not how good I am. As I've said on a few occasions before "there are no good detectorists, only normal and bad ones, as it's the machines that finds things not us and a "normal" detectorist is the one who has learned his machine inside-out". Wink


Agree with you Geoff to a certain extent but the bigger picture is a lot of club activity is based on finds of the month competitions, which are then in turn related to best find of the event, or yearly awards for best or most interesting finds. These are all destroyed by this practice. Try cheating at a golf club to win the coveted yearly trophy for best golfer and see what happens.
Hopefully this subject will generate some responses from the hobby and will in itself, make the people doing this realises that people are not stupid and they will be caught at some point. The problem in my opinion is were not prepared to confront them, so they think their getting away with it.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:22:22 AM by ysbytymike » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 08:37:45 AM »

There are two irritants for me. Firstly the habit of not filling holes or not filling them properly. It is just as prevalent as ever and risks the relationship with the landowner which the rally organiser may have built up over time. The other is the regular "alleged" find. In one club we had a member constantly producing good finds every time we had a rally. Eventually he was challenged and asked to leave the club and he just went to another club. The issue  is not just dishonesty and kudos seeking, these people can then go on to enter club finds competitions and distort the results.
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Chef Geoff
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 09:24:58 AM »

I'm dubious of anyone who needs to join a club Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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GJH
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 11:25:31 AM »

I'm dubious of anyone who needs to join a club Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Hi Geoff, I can't see why you would be dubious of someone joining a club,woudn't it be because maybe they are just starting out in the hobby and have no permisions of there own, not every one has been detecting as long as you and you have been lucky to aquire a lot of land over time,so maybe at present they have no option but to join a club. Smiley Smiley Smiley
 Geoff
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 04:16:29 PM by GJH » Logged
Whiteduke
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 12:02:20 PM »

Unless theres monetary gain from finding "coin of the rally"and other than distorting historical data
i don't see a problem.

I haven't been on many rallies but have had my doubts on certain finds I've seen based purely
on the finders expression when showing the find to the masses.

I could have read the signals wrong,but it wouldn't matter for i would have no interest confronting
the finder on the finds authenticity.

Its a bit like fishermans tales,and they are harmless.
Only the story teller knows the truth.
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rjm
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 12:22:43 PM »

Most rallies I don't find something, and I'm fine about that. I detect for enjoyment and exercise.
Taking something is only kidding MYSELF.  What's the point?

I'm not in to finds league tables as the temptation is there for a participant to cheat to gain status.
I watch some people detecting and I'm amazed they find anything as their technique is not classic!

Part of the problem is proving someone is taking their own 'finds' to rallies is difficult to prove, and could be deemed a slander or libel, and possible legal implications.  The reality is it's really sad, and even laughable!

I don't think anything needs to be done except by detectorists themselves. If they are so insecure that they need to bolster their ego, then it's only them that will be able to sort themselves out.

I spoke to Cheff Geoff about the following on the weekend. Personally, I get more enjoyment going to a hunted out site or a field that I don't expect to find something, to do my detecting.

Finding a hammered coin or brooch doesn't do much for me these days. I get more of a thrill from finding a small deep coin that's obviously been missed. Most detectors with a competent user will find most targets, so it's getting that bit extra out of my machine that does it for me.

There's a lot worse things going on in the world, so I'm not too bothered if someone wants to bolster their ego.by claiming they found something when they didn't: Especially as it doesn't effect me as I don't participate in league tables or finds competitions.



 

« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 12:25:05 PM by rjm » Logged

Spooyt Vane
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 02:23:06 PM »

I'm dubious of anyone who needs to join a club Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I am more dubious of persons claiming Archeological links... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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the-BANGOR-citizan
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 02:24:08 PM »

A subject that disheartens me greatly having observed this on quite a few occasions. When it was blatent to me that this practice is rife in our hobby at the end of the day the least we can do is confront these people. I have suspicions of a number of people who find good finds a bit to regular. Have for want of a better word shadowed them at rallies and would be able to give three peoples names of which two have shocked me greatly. It proves nothing, gives a false history to the area and leaves the persons credibility in tatters. As Neil says in his post finds come in odd ways and silly runs do occur but most finds will enhance what is already known about an area. Many clever people will know there local area like Chef does for instance, He will know the written history, the documentary evidence and the finds will back this up. Just remember those that are itching to be the centre of attention we all have the same interest and we also know what is available to buy online. Just don,t try and make us all look fools.
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Spooyt Vane
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 02:33:36 PM »

Find of the weekend at the Old Rallies back in 80s, were discredited by a few dishonest people bringing there best finds from their collections to claim a brand new and expense metal detector ,put up generously by the manufactors ...But that quickly came to an end when the companys cottoned on . Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Chef Geoff
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 03:50:40 PM »

I'm dubious of anyone who needs to join a club Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Hi Geoff, I can't see why you would be dubious of someone joining a club,woudn't it be because maybe they are just starting out in the hobby and have no permisions of there own, not every one has been detecting as long as you and you have been lucky to aquire a lot of land over time,so maybe at present they have no option to join a club. Smiley Smiley Smiley
 Geoff

That was tongue in cheek Geoff, yes I agree clubs are almost a must for anyone starting in the hobby, more for advice and encouragement than anything else. But unfortunately they are also the breeding ground of bad advice and bad practice.
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