DetectingWales.com

'Metal detectors should be licensed' – Tony Robinson
'Metal detecting worries me greatly,' says Tony Robinson. 'To be honest, I think we're pissing about. The reality, according to Phil, is that there are likely to be no metal finds at all in the first foot of Britain's soil within 20 years. The only way we can prevent that happening is by legislation. I think all metal detectors should be licensed and to get a licence they should be required to abide by a code of archaeological best practice.'

'Everything we find, wherever it is, should be scrupulously and systematically recorded within its archaeological context,' Tony insists. He says that the Portable Antiquities Scheme, which involves the voluntary recording of archaeological finds, is 'great, and I support the people who do it, but in a way it's a policy of despair because it's saying yes, all these people are going to plunder our archaeology but what we'll do is try to persuade the nice ones to tell us where they found it.'

Tony doesn't think legislation on metal detecting is too much to ask. It's about developing a critical mass of support to change hearts and minds on the issue. We don't allow people to collect birds' eggs any more, for example, he says. 'Yet this is worse than egg collecting. There will still be kestrels producing eggs until we get down to the last half dozen kestrels but once you lose archaeological remains they are gone forever.'

Mick Aston -Time Team


Mick Aston, for example, has long been outspoken on this issue (Of metal detecting). He feels passionately that we have to respect our past, and has little time for those who take the cavalier approach of hunting for 'treasure' and digging up artefacts that lose most of their potential meaning when removed from the context in which they are found.

'You often get people who own metal detectors purely to find treasure,' he says. 'The problem is they find things and dig them up without any recording. We end up with a lot of objects completely out of context and then it's the archaeologist who has to come in and sort out the mess.'

Much as i like Mr Robinson there is also the view that a majority of metal detectors will only detect down to about 10 to 12 inches. This is the depth of modern ploughing,  especially potato harvests which can go down to 18 inches. This i know because i worked on a project to test the impact  of such a harvest on a site that had been excavated in the 1930,s. This had reduced the recorded archaeology by 85% leaving just 3cm at the very bottom. As for the metal work well this had all but been either corroded, scattered, damaged by the agricultural process or damaged by chemicals during spraying. None was found in-situ as they say. With the metal detector a new totally unrecorded ancillary building was found about 70 metres away. As i say totally unrecorded and unknown. Did not show on air photos or as a part of the geophysics. A trench was put in just on the basis of metal detecting finds and was found to be a small temple hence the metal coins being detected. Archaeologists have got to wake up and see that it works both ways and we probably highlight a majority of the new sites that have been recorded in the last ten years and that a majority of us are honest history loving people not out for a quick buck but rather a story behind a find that pieces together a small piece of the history of that field. Archaeology is totally underfunded and still has a antiquarian attitude that needs to be brought into the 21st century. Ah Rant Over. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

And thats told mr Tiny robinson.So get off your high horse and cocentrate on bit part actingTINY ooops sorry TONY ;D

paul as you say "Baldrick " has for years been making these sound bites. they all have a few things in common, namely, they are ill informed, biased and one dimentional. whilst i totally agree that there are some detectorists out there who's only thought is one of greed and total disregard for our history.
what "Baldrick", Mick aston and many of the archaeological fraternity seem totaly incapable of saying is that without the help of the vast majority of detectorists who do record their finds, our museums, and indeed our understanding of the history of our country would be a hell of a lot different. >:(

ADMIN:
I have removed some serious allegations about the conduct of the Time Team program from this post for legal reasons. We will attempt to substantiate these allegations and if sufficient evidence arises we will bring the matter to the attention of the proper authorities.


 I have often  wondered why they only have "3 days to unearth and record an unknown Roman villa"? surely if it was that important they would take all the time needed then edit the "show" into a 60 minute format.
Time team never give credit to detectorists who help them or indeed the ones who have first found the site, recorded it and hence thats why the show and its "stars" are there in the first place.

In my opinion, Tony Robinson and the rest of the Time Team are hypocritical B*******s. The first foot of soil that he's so worried about is the bit they scrape off with a JCB and dump when they go off on one of their pointless digs.

In case no-one else has noticed the pattern, first the English Heritage report on 'nighthawking', then metal detectorists being arrested in Essex, now Robinson's pontifications - Our hobby is under concerted attack and we need to respond in a much more aggressive way than we have up to now.

I don't know what the NCMD and the FID are doing about this but I would guess not a lot. Metal detecting needs a much more radical approach to combat this kind of thing.

Is there anything in place for us to fight back, what if we invite Tony Robinson to join detecting Wales forum as a 'Special guest' so we can put our arguments forward, also he can put his arguments forward. In fact why not have an acheology thread and invite someone like the guy that comes to the meetings (sorry blanked on his name) to  join detecting wales a an advisor?

I think we should blame the bottle diggers :)

where did he study to become an expert (blackadder perhaps). there may be a few that give us a bad name,but if my memory serves me right very recently it was found that an archaeoligist while working kept some of of the finds for himself and later on( he died or something like that) and they were handed back.can someone tell me if its right that 80 PER CENT off items in museums today  were through detectorist am i wrong  viv

Where do we start on this one?  Without getting into an anti Tony Robinson crusade, which I could so easily do! I think what Mr Robinson has forgotten is that according to the NCMD, detectorists accounted for 93% of the reported Treasure Finds in 2005/06. So in theory if we are all grave plundering thieves there should be no Treasure finds recorded from any detectorists!

As someone else has stated the show is all theatre - why only have 3 days, why attack the ground with a JCB and realistically lose the context of finds (I have found both hammered and Roman silver coins at 4 inches or less on pasture), why do they refuse to let detectorists scan anywhere apart from the removed top soil?  So many questions, far too little time.

I think the idea of inviting Mr Robinson onto this site would be ground breaking and certainly pick up a National media interest (maybe too much). I can certainly get hold of a contact address for him via "media friends" I have. Maybe we should invite him or would it just be opening a can of worms? (Geoff - ring me)

As Geoff says there is definately an agenda to try and limit or remove the ability to go Metal Detecting in the UK. Even flaming Scott Mills on Radio 1 has been going on about it the last two days. Quite amusing if anyone listened to it! It has started with the beaches and I am positive within 5 years there will be some white paper floating around if there isn't already. Its not allowed already in large swaves of Europe, and as we are slowly becoming transformed into being a part of the bastardised United States of Europe, I think it will happen?  What happens then? Are we going to roll over and say okay fair enough we'll all resign our detectors to the attic? Will we Hell! All you will see is a huge increase in Nighthawking, and nothing at all will be declared or recorded for fear of prosecution. The Nighthawks will always be there the same with any past time. You have those who abuse it and those who don't (ask the fishermem how many have been out with friends fishing without licences). Its a recipe for disaster and I don't really know what the answer is. If we make it too prominent an issue we risk the process being speeded up If we ignore it then we do so at our peril! Whats everyone elses opinion?

Rant over

What i must add is that we preserve history where it would be lost until in say a couple of hundred years when a schedualed site actually get looked at.lol
we save the government millions in money by finding the lost history which would cost archioligist wages to find a quarter of the amounts of metalic artifact.
we clean up rubbish from beaches to include brocken glass when the top is on.
cans ringpulls can cause eco damage where fish and birds all can swallow ringpulls as do fish this can kill either. can's left ripped on sandy beaches cut people especially young kids barefooted .it is unjust that any concideration of stopping our hobby from taking place in our country .
let's hope it does never happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beachboy that is the tip of the iceberg. I am a qualified Archaeologist and did my degree as an adult learner. This had been a burning ambition for 15 years and the elation of finally achieving this was quickly brought down to earth when i started working in the discipline. Choice artefacts have disappeared on nearly my sites that i worked on and it took me a while to sus this out. I would hand my finds trays in at night and i would usually photo them for my own record. Next day certain items would be gone and when i asked about this i was informed that they were being drawn or recorded in some way. Never to appear in the follow up written report where did they go. I recently went to talk to a retired archaeologist to obtain information about a certain excavation he had done nearly twenty years ago as no details were published about his dig. What an eye opener his house was. If anybody is monitoring this site then i would gladly give his name and address. A man i use to respect for his knowledge i now have much disrespect over his integrity. Just as much a problem is the written recording of digs. I believe over half of known excavations are unrecorded, which from so called professional bodies is totally unprofessional. Who monitors the archaeologist. Why do FLO officers keep finds for so long, who regulates them. Being disillusioned by the profession i think somebody should look at Archaeology from our side and ask questions.   Another RANT over.   >:( >:( >:( >:(

Paul - That is a very, very interesting post - can you please copy and paste and message Geoff?

Thank you
Neil

Tony Robinson!

I thought he was a TV Presenter, is he a qualified Archeologist  ???

I couln't stand Black Adder either

Burp

Though he comes across as uneducated in his delivery style. Mr Robinson does have qualifications in History and Archaeology.  To a degree standard i believe.

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but was just trawling through old posts for something to read and came across it. I would just like to put the record straight that Tony Robinson has no educational qualifications or training in either archaeology or history, what he does have is 5 "Honorary" degrees for services to archaeology.

One thinks we all are treading on very thin ice ! It isnt a good idea to pick a fight with the time team who have the media on their side. It would be far more beneficial as said earlier by I think Neil, to get time team thinking on our wave lengths.

Responsible detecting  ::) Everybody on here is aware that recently I have built a new detecting club, what amazed me in setting it up was the number of very long term detectorists who were not FID / NCMD and probably unless I had insisted that our members are in FID or NCMD would still be out of it :o

I may get shot down but I cannot see a problem with some degree of a license, unless we as a group get our own act together, we are in great danger that someone else will delegate from a higher authority more restrictive regulation.
(most of us carry fid/ncmd cards all the time,and if you dont you should !!)

As the numbers of metal detectorists grow, we are fools if we try to resist some degree of regulation. Its because of the actions of the few out of the loop, who will instigate tougher controls on the majority, like the recent gun laws.

As stated, metal detectorists only normally detect "inches" down, whereas TimeTeam's JCB always rips the top 12 " off in one go. Most of the top 0" to 24" has already been ploughed so nothing is in context archaeologically.

In the past 30 years most of the big finds have come via metal detectorists which I can understand has put the archaeologists 'nose out of joint' so to speak.

Personally I think Tony Robinson is a berk. I'm not that impressed with Professor Mick Aston who, to me, seems  a bit clueless, bumbling idiot, on many topics. I do wonder how he obtained his position. Most of the informed facts come from the landscape archaeologist (Stuart Ainsworth), Geophysist (John Gater), and Phil Harding (an archaeologist who actually does some digging!!).

I know a few people who have had nothing but trouble and stress after declaring their finds which were processed under The Treasure Act. Sometimes, years later, they have had to fight to try and get near the market value of their finds.

If metal detectors were banned a few years ago then the extraordinary finds that have come to light in the last couple of years would not be known!!!!!!!!!! How much worst off would be? Common sense would say, how can you ban something that has been responsible for finds of amazing National importance?...............and just think of the finds to come because we are allowed to enjoy our hobby.

No system is perfect but it is a sytem that is working quite well: We don't need the likes of Robinson using his public persona to try and get his way because he thinks he's right. He has no qualifications and should not be allowed to voice his opinions as such.

could,nt agree with you more bob, after watching all the posing and primping outside my place in portskewett,harolds house, 50 yards away,and watching victor put the finishing touches to his drawings before a spade was put in the ground,it makes you wonder who are they trying to fool,still i suppose it makes good tv,a friend of mine owns ground with a medievil village on it,his fathers,father owned that ground and so on,but they caught two dayhawkers on there some years ago,someone seen them and the police were called plus cadw,and my friend had to drop what he was doing and get straight there,he was asked why he let them on there,he said he did,nt know them and never set eyes on them before,it turned out they had permission from the the next farm over
and had wandered over there thinking it belonged to the farmer they had permission from,they were let go with a warning,cadw then noticed that my friend had fenced off a piece of his OWN field to make a cattle pen and was given a bollocking for driving stakes into the ground and thus possibly destroying historic evidence,and was asked to take them down,that was some years ago,but they have known of this village for years and years,and nothing has been done about it,they would rather let it rot in the ground,sorry for the rant but thats how i feel about the subject

I really dont think a license would solve any problems. What I mean by that is if i found jesus christs toe nail clippers would a license then force me to report it ? nope !   It still at the end of day comes down to the individual making the find. Does a license stop some anglers taking home under size fish ? nope !

mr robinson states that there will be no metal objects in the ground in 20 years due to metal detecting  ??? all i an say is there will be a rise in golfing and fishing in 20 years then. ;D

ha ha ha ,, any way possible with them hey, if you can't get us one way then try other ways lol