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Metal Detecting Discussions => Metal Detector Finds => Topic started by: celticspikey on May 09, 2017, 08:18:58 PM



Title: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 09, 2017, 08:18:58 PM
Hi guys, here's a little cracker from yesterday. It appears to be a Dolphin Type so I would say around the the 1st cent AD, and may be early 50-60 AD....especially as it has a bit of Celtic influence I feel?

One question the animal type figure on the bow, I think a bull ?.......Or is it, your opinions welcome as I can not find a parallel.
 


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: dragonsbreath(Paul) on May 09, 2017, 09:22:47 PM
What a wonderful artifact....well saved from the plough...i think you should describe yourself
as a curator as i think you could put a small museum to shame..... great detecting yet again......respect......PaulB.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 09, 2017, 09:36:04 PM
What a wonderful artifact....well saved from the plough...i think you should describe yourself
as a curator as i think you could put a small museum to shame..... great detecting yet again......respect......PaulB.
Hi Paul,thanks for your comments. Saved from the plough for sure, not so sure about the museum thou... :) ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: jtalbot0001 on May 09, 2017, 11:52:35 PM
That is one amazing brooch! Well found! Dolphin brooches design project outwards left and right on the spring end so look like a 'T' if that makes sense. Yours clearly does not. According to my cat yours would closely match the British Bow brooch (some examples show a single protruding design above) of the 1st century AD or, slightly less so, even be from the continent from the same era. Without having a multitude of books at hand yours could be unique. I think that is one that should definitely be recorded so it can go in the books :) Jon


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Neil on May 10, 2017, 09:01:19 AM
Now that's a beauty!

Could it be three phallic items that's on the end. We all know how the Romans loved to wear and promote these images as signs of virility and good luck. Funny bunch!

Quality as always Mr Spikey!

Cheers
Neil


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: relicron on May 10, 2017, 09:18:12 AM
Cracking find there paul,what a beauty,looks like a boar to me,well done again paul. ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 10, 2017, 01:05:31 PM
That is one amazing brooch! Well found! Dolphin brooches design project outwards left and right on the spring end so look like a 'T' if that makes sense. Yours clearly does not. According to my cat yours would closely match the British Bow brooch (some examples show a single protruding design above) of the 1st century AD or, slightly less so, even be from the continent from the same era. Without having a multitude of books at hand yours could be unique. I think that is one that should definitely be recorded so it can go in the books :) Jon
Thanks Jon, I have all the Hattatt books, I've only flipped through them more time needed. I will take on board your comments and thanks for your input...FLO as you say  ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 10, 2017, 01:08:23 PM
Now that's a beauty!

Could it be three phallic items that's on the end. We all know how the Romans loved to wear and promote these images as signs of virility and good luck. Funny bunch!

Quality as always Mr Spikey!

Cheers
Neil
Cheers Neil, I never thought of a Willy :o ;) as you say they were into them.. ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Val Beechey on May 10, 2017, 06:58:56 PM
Wow Paul that's a beauty. Probably one of the best I've seen you find.

My first thought was Zoomorphic. To me it looks like a dogs head. But maybe I'm  predudiced  ::)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: wagis on May 10, 2017, 08:11:30 PM
That is one very unusual brooch, to me the top picture looks like a sea horse but definitely one for the flo. Well found there


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 10, 2017, 08:12:41 PM
Wow Paul that's a beauty. Probably one of the best I've seen you find.

My first thought was Zoomorphic. To me it looks like a dogs head. But maybe I'm  predudiced  ::)
Hi Val, I always look farward to your input on my posts and others on the forum. Yes you probably are predudiced I know you like your woof woofs  ;)
I have e mailed a picture to my FLO....let you know what he says....
I've had a couple more nice finds which I shall put up in a day or two, I don't want to Hogg DW... ;) :)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 10, 2017, 08:15:02 PM
That is one very unusual brooch, to me the top picture looks like a sea horse but definitely one for the flo. Well found there
Yes I can see that wagis, especially the head of the brooch being ribbed...thanks for your input.
Hope to eventually get an ID some where... ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: JBM on May 10, 2017, 08:58:57 PM
Great zoomorphic brooch.

The Romans had a fascination with animal features.

Well Saved.

Jerry.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: hotmill on May 11, 2017, 01:07:05 PM
That is one very unusual brooch, to me the top picture looks like a sea horse but definitely one for the flo. Well found there

Looks like a seahorse to me as well.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Mungo on May 19, 2017, 08:46:57 PM
 8) WOW , that's a cracking find.........


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Val Beechey on May 20, 2017, 03:54:12 PM
on second thoughts it does look more like a sea horse than a dog. ::)   any news from the FLO yet ?


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 20, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
on second thoughts it does look more like a sea horse than a dog. ::)   any news from the FLO yet ?
FLO hasn't seen one like it, and I can't get it recorded just yet, he wants to do analysis of the metal.....which will be intersting would like to know if it's continental Val ??


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Dale on May 21, 2017, 12:54:11 PM
on second thoughts it does look more like a sea horse than a dog. ::)   any news from the FLO yet ?
FLO hasn't seen one like it, and I can't get it recorded just yet, he wants to do analysis of the metal.....which will be intersting would like to know if it's continental Val ??

Nice find Paul;)

Did you ever get the report back from the IA Irish yoke analysis?


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 21, 2017, 05:20:34 PM
on second thoughts it does look more like a sea horse than a dog. ::)   any news from the FLO yet ?
FLO hasn't seen one like it, and I can't get it recorded just yet, he wants to do analysis of the metal.....which will be intersting would like to know if it's continental Val ??

Nice find Paul;)

Did you ever get the report back from the IA Irish yoke analysis?
Cheers Dale, The FLO still has it, I will be chasing him up this week.  There desperate to keep it? ie for me to donate it ... ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Dale on May 22, 2017, 09:23:06 PM
They have had it for a long time the tests should be done by now, an important rare interesting find like that and they
still take the **** Its a joke mate.

I bet they are desperate mate id be very very surprised if they have a piece of Irish Celtic art!  Keep it mate  ;)



Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Johnboy25 on May 31, 2017, 09:14:53 PM
As everyone has said a lovely find .


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on May 31, 2017, 10:58:10 PM
Looks like it may be an Armadillo??? Definantly similarities    :-\ ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Dungbeetle on June 01, 2017, 07:38:23 AM
Looks like it may be an Armadillo??? Definantly similarities    :-\ ;)
Armadillos are from the Americas, don't think the Romans made it that far  :D :D :D


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Val Beechey on June 01, 2017, 08:02:17 AM
Who came up with that idea ? No it's a dog. Looks more like this than that. At a stretch of the imagination there is a similarity. This one is Celtic but I remember reading that dogs were of great importance to many of the ancient cultures.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on September 06, 2017, 06:58:57 PM
Hi guys, the brooch is with the FLO, I have just heard it is earlier than I thought....It is (Iron Age) a Birdlip Brooch, and dates to 45 BC although some can be up to 50 AD.. Not many are recorded or found for that matter, this one being one of if not the best, just thought you would be interested as it had a lot of interest....Spikey. ;) 


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Val Beechey on September 06, 2017, 07:34:09 PM
Excellent Paul. Seems all our guesses were wrong. Never even heard of a Birdlip Brooch. Makes all the more special.
Very well found.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: dingdong on September 06, 2017, 07:46:05 PM
Massive Congratulations Paul...an absolutely extraordinary find..100%.+.👍


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on September 06, 2017, 07:51:07 PM
Excellent Paul. Seems all our guesses were wrong. Never even heard of a Birdlip Brooch. Makes all the more special.
Very well found.
Thanks Val, it threw me a bit on the research and I have the Hattatt books aswell.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on September 06, 2017, 07:51:56 PM
 :D
Massive Congratulations Paul...an absolutely extraordinary find..100+%..👍
Cheers Chris... ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: simond on September 07, 2017, 09:05:15 AM
That's a belter  👍


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: wagis on September 07, 2017, 07:05:21 PM
Glad it's been identified it helps you a lot and well done again


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Dale on September 09, 2017, 06:52:35 PM
Hi guys, the brooch is with the FLO, I have just heard it is earlier than I thought....It is (Iron Age) a Birdlip Brooch, and dates to 45 BC although some can be up to 50 AD.. Not many are recorded or found for that matter, this one being one of if not the best, just thought you would be interested as it had a lot of interest....Spikey. ;)  

Great result Paul id take Celtic over Roman any day.

Iv never heard of a Birdlip brooch before, do they think that was the place they were made or is it called that due to its appearance? its very unusual.
When I here the word Birdlip I think of the stunning Celtic mirror found there, its worth a look if you haven't seen it.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Dale on September 09, 2017, 07:19:11 PM
Looking on the PAS the Birdlip brooches are thought to be British variants of the Continental Flugelfibel brooch.
I still cant believe how many complete brooches you find I never seen one complete Birdlip brooch on the PAS lol.........Nice find ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on September 10, 2017, 09:04:13 PM
Hi Dale, yes they are British variants as you have pointed out, it's a pleasing brooch to hold and all the more for being complete. As you say the PAS brooches are no where near the same condition so it makes it a bit of a rarity. Can't answer as to why I find so many complete intact brooches, clumsy Romans in the first instance for losing them   ;D coupled with skilfull tractor drivers for avoiding there destruction....Lol......Oh and I guess a bit of luck chucked in. ;) ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Val Beechey on September 10, 2017, 09:25:29 PM
Not to mention the sort of 'soil' you find them in Paul. Unfortunately the majority of detectorists have loamy, peaty or heavy type soils to detect. These are, of course very acidic and don't leave much to find or ID.
Youre lucky, in one respect, to have a mixture of well drained, chalky, flinty fields as well as loamy ones to detect. Harder to work but better preserved finds. (You're welcome to shout at me if I'm wrong)  :-*

Keep the pics coming. Always a treat to see your finds.


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: celticspikey on September 11, 2017, 08:58:53 PM
Not to mention the sort of 'soil' you find them in Paul. Unfortunately the majority of detectorists have loamy, peaty or heavy type soils to detect. These are, of course very acidic and don't leave much to find or ID.
Youre lucky, in one respect, to have a mixture of well drained, chalky, flinty fields as well as loamy ones to detect. Harder to work but better preserved finds. (You're welcome to shout at me if I'm wrong)  :-*

Keep the pics coming. Always a treat to see your finds.

Can't imagine having to shout at you Val  :-* joking aside you are of course correct I am lucky the county I search mostly is kind to objects, I do feel for detectorists who unfortuantly have to put up with acidic, poor draining soils. If it was me i would move house.... ::) Pop a few things up from the field the Noble come from tomorrow ok.. ;)


Title: Re: Unusual Roman Brooch
Post by: Dale on December 03, 2017, 05:55:46 PM
Looking on the PAS the Birdlip brooches are thought to be British variants of the Continental Flugelfibel brooch.
I still cant believe how many complete brooches you find I never seen one complete Birdlip brooch on the PAS lol.........Nice find ;)

Hi Paul,

Looking through some Celtic plate photos I have I came across this!!
Most are found local, the one on the left was found in Birdlip, Gloucestershire im 99% sure its a grave good
along with the Celtic Birdlip mirror.
Im guessing this is how your brooch got its name.

I got the wrong quote above  ;D :-\    


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