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Metal Detecting Discussions => Metal Detector Finds => Topic started by: Roman (Ray) on May 22, 2013, 04:52:19 PM



Title: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Roman (Ray) on May 22, 2013, 04:52:19 PM
myself i handed in 3 silver denari.s id found on a farm in abergavenny area..january 2012..its almost june 2013..ive never even had a letter to say what will happen now they.ve been handed in and classed as treasure trove..17month later as i speak i still have.nt heard anything about them..as i just stated not even a letter..
i phoned mark lodwick up in january just gone..just to find out whats what as i was totally left in the dark..he looked it up on the computer and said.
right ive found the up-date on them.the welsh museum isnt interested in having them..also the abergavenny museum are not interested in them..no worries could i there for have them back please..yes you can mr coburn..he asked me for my e-mail address so he could get back to me within a week or two and tell me when i can go down and pick them up..ive never up to this day recieved the e-mail..AND PROBERBLY NEVER WILL !!

when i first took up metal detecting i was.nt a member of any clubs..over a period of time i found a few artefacts on the local mountain i think i took around 8 to 10 artefacts to the welsh museum and handed them in for I.D..( mark lodwick )
i went back to the museum around about a month later to recieve my artefacts and find out a little bit more about them.mark lodwick told me he could.nt find them at the moment..could i come back down some other time and he.ll find out where in the museum they are..no problem i told him..and left it for another month..back down to the museum i went thinking he must have found them by now.
yet again he said he could.nt find them..i guess ive lost my artefacts and have to take it on the chin..well disapointed with the welsh museum ive never seen these artefacts since the day i handed them in..AND PROBERBLY NEVER WILL !!

has anyone else had the same treatment..because the way im looking at things is...ive played the game with them..but they have.nt played the game with me !!

raymondoo


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Chef Geoff on May 22, 2013, 05:10:52 PM
Ray did you have a letter from the coroner or the British museum? Did you even get a Treasure Act Receipt ?


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: mrsmarky123 on May 22, 2013, 05:14:48 PM
HE never replys to emails , we gave in a roman coin and have been down there 3 times for him to tell us that the guy who id's coins ain't in , gonna try next week again !


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Roman (Ray) on May 22, 2013, 05:44:25 PM
Ray did you have a letter from the coroner or the British museum? Did you even get a Treasure Act Receipt ?

was i suppose to..mark lodwick was at the r.a.r.e club..he said they would be classed as treasure trove as they were all found within 20ft of each other..there for they would be classed as a hoard..but as far as letters go ive recieved nothing geoff.


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: nobby on May 22, 2013, 05:54:29 PM
And wheres my pink headphone lead !!!! :D


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Roman (Ray) on May 22, 2013, 06:07:37 PM
And wheres my pink headphone lead !!!! :D

lol..did you hand them in as well bruv.. ;D  get onto them..lol.


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Kev on May 22, 2013, 06:28:47 PM
Hi ray I found a terret ring back in 2009 , I'm still waiting to see it again , I did get a drawing back as it was being studied by a graduate at the museum , I did get a email off mark to say its in storage until the Brecon museum opens back up , I did say it could go to the Brecon museum but will it ever get there ??? Hope it does just to see it behind a glass my family want to look at it and so do I. ::) we play the game fairly but do they !!!


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Chef Geoff on May 22, 2013, 06:36:23 PM
Ray it's not up to Mark Lodwick to decide on anything. Whether he thinks one thing or another the coins should have gone through the proper channels which involves the British Museum, as Soon as the find is handed in, the FLO's next job is to inform the County Coroner who would send you a letter just saying that he has been informed, the BM also sends you a letter telling you that the find/s have been deposited with them for examination. After all of that the museums would be contacted and if no one was interested in obtaining them, then............you would have virtually the same communications from the coroner and from the BM/FLO telling you that they were being disclaimed.
Personally I don't think they've even gone through the system :-\


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Chef Geoff on May 22, 2013, 06:44:34 PM
I've heard far too many bad reports from the PAS in Wales and would advise people who are worried to get yourself registered as a "self recorder" that way you keep hold of the find and know it's been recorded.
If you have what you think is treasure and are declaring it then contact the County Coroner direct,  (they don't forget lol). :( which is the correct route anyway.


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Roman (Ray) on May 22, 2013, 07:06:40 PM
Ray it's not up to Mark Lodwick to decide on anything. Whether he thinks one thing or another the coins should have gone through the proper channels which involves the British Museum, as Soon as the find is handed in, the FLO's next job is to inform the County Coroner who would send you a letter just saying that he has been informed, the BM also sends you a letter telling you that the find/s have been deposited with them for examination. After all of that the museums would be contacted and if no one was interested in obtaining them, then............you would have virtually the same communications from the coroner and from the BM/FLO telling you that they were being disclaimed.
Personally I don't think they've even gone through the system :-\

i just give them to the local flo which is mr mark lodwick..wether he sent them to the brittish museum i dont know and proberbly never will..i just done wot i was told when i first took up detecting..if you find something you think is treasure trove report it to your nearest flo..if you.d like to find out more about your finds..take them to the nearest flo.
and thats exactly what i done.
and if i have.nt recieved a letter of the brittish museum in 17month..then maybe mark lodwick did.nt send them to the brittish museum..from what i can gather either the welsh museum are not playing the game..or the brittish museum..at the end of the day i done what was expected.i handed them in..






Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Chef Geoff on May 22, 2013, 07:13:31 PM
Oh you did your half of the bargain and don't get confused between the Museum and PAS, Mark Lodwick works for PAS not the museum ;)


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: The Doc on May 22, 2013, 08:38:26 PM
Sounds very disappointing Ray

I have had 6 finds go through the Treasure Act process, with Mark Lodwick having some involvement in each of them. Two were eventually disclaimed and returned, and four were kept by the museum.

Although the process can be very slow, I have always found Mark to be professional and thorough in the way he deals with cases. He has kept me informed and also the BM in London have always written to me at each stage of the procedure once they are involved. When items have gone to the coroner, I have also always had letters informing me of what is happening.

In addition to the Treasure items, Mark has also taken in numerous finds of mine for recording, and these have usually been returned with reports in the following month.

Just wanted to provide a balance to the reports above


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Roman (Ray) on May 22, 2013, 08:53:24 PM
Sounds very disappointing Ray

I have had 6 finds go through the Treasure Act process, with Mark Lodwick having some involvement in each of them. Two were eventually disclaimed and returned, and four were kept by the museum.

Although the process can be very slow, I have always found Mark to be professional and thorough in the way he deals with cases. He has kept me informed and also the BM in London have always written to me at each stage of the procedure once they are involved. When items have gone to the coroner, I have also always had letters informing me of what is happening.

In addition to the Treasure items, Mark has also taken in numerous finds of mine for recording, and these have usually been returned with reports in the following month.

Just wanted to provide a balance to the reports above

thats great news for yourself pete everything went smooth mate and no problems im happy for you..as you can see by reading my thread.. things have.nt gone as smooth for myself..


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: outlaw on May 22, 2013, 09:10:41 PM
I have handed items into brecon museum who in turn should send them down to Mark Lodwick for recording under the pas. Sometimes i have had to wait 6 - 10 months before I see them again.

Recently I handed in  approx 8 bags of artefacts (singular items) silver coins, and artefacts and one coin a farmer gave me for id only. I told him approx 1 - 2 months and he would have it back. 4 months later, I find that the items are still sitting in the Brecon musuem safe. Needless to say I have asked for them back and have since collected them to make alternative arrangements for recording.

Over the years I have sent down to mark via Brecon musuem countless artefacts and coins, i recently logged onto the pas data base and was dismayed to find sight of only 5 items. I have been supposedly recording under pas since 2004. I notice that despite numerous telephone calls to Mark and emails, to date i have had no response as to why I cannot see all the numerous finds that Mark Lodwick has had and written reports on ??

It has left me pretty annoyed, I think the suggestion of self recording is an appropriate answer. I hasten to add Mark Lodwick is really pleasant guy who does have his hands tied on the vast amount of artefacts that is sent to him every month and  is restricted by the funding crisis. Most of us do act as responsible detectorists and as such should be able to have sight on the pas data base of our finds, when you cannot, it raises a lot of daunting question marks !  ??? ???


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Mike on May 22, 2013, 09:22:54 PM
i have to agree with the doc on this one , i routinely record items via mark lodwick at the monthly cardiff scan club meetings , i have never waited more than a month for thier return with a full report and pics etc , so i personally cant fault him , however , i have as yet not found a treasure item so cannot comment on that , i will comment when/if i ever find such an item , i live in hope lol


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Chef Geoff on May 22, 2013, 09:36:35 PM
There is a time disparity with all FLO'S in that finds picked up at club meeting generally have to be completed in a month ready for the next meeting, those taken in to an FLO have more of an open ended time frame which probably means that they tend to be put on the back boiler.
But the point of this thread was that Ray's obvious treasure find hasn't been handled as is normally the case ???


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Chef Geoff on May 22, 2013, 09:56:45 PM
There is definitely something wrong with the system in Wales as according to the statistics on PAS regarding the amount of finds added to the database in 2012. Somerset had 1825 while the whole of Wales added just 240............................... ::)


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Val Beechey on May 22, 2013, 10:51:14 PM
It isn't just 'in the hand' finds that aren't being processed.

Two years ago I pointed out a site to a visiting Archaeologist, who at the time was very excited about it. She went away, armed with aerial photos and co-ordinates. What happened.......NOTHING.
One year ago I volunteered to join a new programme for locals for Coastal Observation, different Archaeologist in charge and different area. I mentioned the site in question and asked if he had any information. Needless to say he'd heard nothing about it even though it was in his area. He sent my E.Mail and more information, including LIDAR data of the site on to the original Archaeologist and assured me that it would be added to their records as a site of significance though it was unlikely they would be able to afford a dig. What happened next...........NOTHING. not even a note to say thanks. This site is some 130m round, so not small. You'd think it would be worth a look, wouldn't you.
I now ask myself,   why bother. Maybe I should have said I'd found a Roman site. ???

Val


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: probono on May 22, 2013, 10:59:49 PM
Well my experience.

All the stuff I hand in at which-ever club gets returned promptly - to whichever club I handed it in to, with a nice report which I can show the farmer.

I have one treasure case at the moment. I photographed, weighed and identified the items and on the advice of Mark I informed the coroner myself within 36 hours of the find. I took the items to Mark myself, so I got a 'receipt'.

My father has told everyone in the museum and Cardiff Archs, so quite a few people have enquired about the items and looked at them (although Edward Besley seemed a bit unware of them a few months after they were handed in).

Since then, everytime I see Mark I ask about it - he did tell me that 'the report should be ready by April' (i.e about 5 months). It isn't and I haven't heard anything from the museum or the coroner and I handed them in so quickly that all the farmer has seen is some photos I took (I have a photo of both sides of every item). Ok, so it is early days yet, but - (and I don't blame Mark for this) - by law I have to hand things in within 2 weeks / notify at least, but then it takes months for anything to happen the other way (and there aren't that many treasure cases each year - last year there were 970 I think). I'm also a bit disappointed that no-one has been out to the site either, although again, it's trying to find a time when Edward Besley can make it as he is so busy......

It just seems a bit frustrating - and I just want to see the farmer recompensed in his lifetime......


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: outlaw on May 23, 2013, 06:04:46 AM
I think Chef has hit it on the head. The largest clubs seem to have the upper hand in the time frame of submitting and getting back artefacts for recording.

However, in my mind, we all as responsible detectorists are encouraged to submit finds to pas scheme, the smaller clubs in other areas of Wales and individuals should not have to wait  over 6 months for the return of items. ( especially when telling land owners that items classed as recordable are normally returned within 2 months, and then drift into 6  + months, they can start to think you've walked off with the items )

There has been funding cuts and I believe job losses at the Wales National Musuem.

The system should be improved. I appreciate the topic started by Ray is hijacked and apologise.



Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: mrsmarky123 on May 23, 2013, 07:30:16 AM
I put in my silver bodkin early this year as it was declared treasure , i hope it goes smoothly , what time frame should i expect a letter from the coroner ?


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Neil on May 23, 2013, 09:05:52 AM
Really interesting thread guys - keep it going.

From my experience I have always found Mark immensely helpfull, but thoroughly under resourced. It does very much feel like he's a one man team, which is clearly not sufficient for the size of the area and the number of people detecting.

Items I have handed in to Mark would always come back promptly with an informative report. Although like others I have struggled to find them recorded on PAS. I agree with Cheffy that this is why there is such a disparity in the number of finds recorded in Wales to the rest of the UK.

Regarding Treasure - I thoroughly enjoyed the experience, but found the "pick a value from the air" valuation process bizarre to say the least. "Oh, you don't agree with our valuation? Okay heres some more money?" It just reminds me of selling a used car, in that they basically haggle the price up in small amounts untill you accept it. :)

Interesting debate

Neil


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Dungbeetle on May 23, 2013, 09:27:30 AM
I have recorded finds with Mark Lodwick up here in North Wales, there is a three month wait until finds are returned when he visits again. I've found him to be very informative but the scheme is under funded and Wales is a large area to cover. I'm still looking for a treasure item but it will come.


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Chef Geoff on May 23, 2013, 09:51:24 AM
I totally agree that one FLO for the whole of Wales is mad to say the least. At a DW rally last year a volunteer attended in place of Mark and while she did a sterling job I was sat behind her van Id'ing finds using my books, quite bizarre ::)
There are three main stages of recording, the first is the recording itself, next is the raising the record to public view and lastly is the record being validated by a third party.
It would appear that the first is being carried out but as to the other two stages  ???
But once again this doesn't solve Rays situation which is that his "should be" treasure case has not been handled in the correct way.

Mark, I have always had a coroners letter within a month of registering a treasure find.


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Jassy on May 23, 2013, 10:11:28 PM
Oh no don't say that! I handed something in at our last club meeting, probably the oldest thing I've found..... it's not classed as treasure , it's a bronze thingy......


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Dryland on May 23, 2013, 11:03:20 PM
what's a bronze thingy ? lol is that the same as a bronze doo dah ? ;D ;D


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Jassy on May 23, 2013, 11:05:06 PM
Yes the very same!!! Hehheee!
god knows what it is, just something I found on the beach :)


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: handyman [Alan} on May 24, 2013, 07:47:43 AM
Yes the very same!!! Hehheee!
god knows what it is, just something I found on the beach :)

I found Mrs H on the beach .... where do i hand her in!!  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Jassy on May 24, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
 :o :o Alan!!!! Hahhaaa!


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Val Beechey on May 24, 2013, 02:31:14 PM
Finders, keepers,  Al. ;)

Val


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: nobby on May 24, 2013, 02:58:02 PM
Finders keepers, jeepers creepers! Lol


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: jonty on May 24, 2013, 03:26:52 PM

It occurred to me,  that the only person not aware of this thread is Mark Lodwick.


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Dryland on May 24, 2013, 11:33:24 PM
Nobby your a poet ;D


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: stever on May 25, 2013, 11:17:55 AM
going by the right channels seems a lot of hassle i could not be dealing people who do not do there jobs efficiently i dont blame people for not reporting there finds if this is the way they get treated


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: the-BANGOR-citizan on May 25, 2013, 11:54:31 AM
Great thread. For your information a collection of about 200 Flints from one field in Herefordshire were with the PAS for five years when I finally had them back before Xmas. They still have not made there way onto the database. I currently have a treasure case in the system three years and no official notification and they also have a few unidentified coins for the same period again no notification of receipt other than a note off the FLO. I took it in my hands to call the PAS and speak to the head person for my area who basically talked to me like a piece of dirt when I questioned him on the whole recording process. I had been phoning my FLO for the best part of five weeks and e-mails got no reply other than the automated reply we all get. The rudeness and antiquarian attitude of the representative in London certainly framed my attitude to PAS in that I now have 73 items in my possession that are legible for the scheme but until that guy apologises in public and it is in written form I will not record a thing. Personally my FLO Peter Revill is I think way overstretched in the area he covers. Does way to much community and school projects to justify the job and the whole system is way underfunded and in major, major need of a overhaul. Good luck with your recording.


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: outlaw on May 25, 2013, 09:04:30 PM
Have you not considered self recording, I think the Chef  is in a better position in which to explain the do's an dont's.

In my case I have made other arrangements and am considering self recording too  ;D


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: herbie on May 26, 2013, 11:19:55 AM
To be honest the dealings I've had with my FLO have been pretty good, any items I've left with him for recording have been done within 3-4 months, and he's always been very helpful and informative. Have finally had a couple of my treasure cases completed, just over 2 years, which looking at what people have been saying is pretty good, few more still in the process, but things seem to be speeding up a bit now they're into the final stages.
Must say one FLO for the whole of wales is ridiculous!


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: Jeffc on May 26, 2013, 06:10:35 PM
Have to agree with Pete. Finds handed over to mark at the club meetings are invariably returned at the next meeting with descriptions and reference number. What is going wrong is the transfer to the PAS database. Of all the stuff I have had properly recorded only 9 items show on the database with no pattern as to dates of record or even type of artefact. As to coins I have no idea what the system is . Ed Besley records and ID's everything but I have one coin out of hundreds on the DB. I have discussed this with Mark but I don't think he really knows what is happening either and hasn't the time to check it out!


Title: Re: disapointed with the welsh museum !!
Post by: probono on June 01, 2013, 11:55:42 PM
. As to coins I have no idea what the system is . Ed Besley records and ID's everything but I have one coin out of hundreds on the DB.

Yes, I usually identify and weigh all my coins before I hand them in. EB still writes up a packet often with a slighly different weight and a different RIC variant.....


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