DetectingWales.com

Reading comments on another thread about people taking finds to rallies then claiming them as legitimate finds is reaching ridiculous levels. I don't know about other people but I find this very disheartening when attending events. You work hard all day, then you get these people taking finds to events and claiming them as 'legit', thus negating all the hard effort 99.9% of attendees will have put into the day.

Eventually I see all finds being suspect thus effectively destroying all the efforts of the organisers to reward the attendees and all because of a few very sad people, desperately seeking attention.
What do they achieve by doing this? Their only fooling themselves and if caught, ruin there reputation amongst other member of the detecting fraternity for ever, as they'll always be known from that day on as a cheat and any legitimate find they might make will be treated with contempt.
I believe that we need to keep our own house in order. In other words, 'anybody' found submitting false finds should be banned from their club.. No arguments. No appeal. That's the only way to
bring back credibility and enable people (some travelling great distances to attend these events) feel their playing on a level playing field.
Too many clubs and organisations are just 'tut tutting' and sweeping it under the rug so to speak. I'm afraid its like bullying.. If you don't make a stand it 'always gets worse the longer its left'.

Ysbyty

I agree with you Mike, it does seem to be on the rise but it's gone on as long as I've been detecting. I'm not sure if banning would be a little too far though and feel naming and shaming (after a warning) would probably make the offenders disappear anyway.
It only angers me in the sense that these people are taking me for a fool though and if they need to do it for some sort self glorification then as far as I'm concerned..carry on. At the end of the day it's not a sport or competitive in any way and when I find something nice I give thanks how lucky I was to walk over it and not how good I am. As I've said on a few occasions before "there are no good detectorists, only normal and bad ones, as it's the machines that finds things not us and a "normal" detectorist is the one who has learned his machine inside-out". ;)

it is a bit like the people who run rallies," never been detected before" now they really get up my nose ." all for charity" time we all woke up to the greedy individuals who take us for a ride, but like lambs to the slaughter, we do it time after time, must be the biggest mug hobby about.

I have always found this practice peculiar to say the least, and clearly an attention seeking exercise. I have no problem with people collecting and purchasing coins and artefacts - I do it myself, but why pretend you've just found it? I don't think I would ban anyone over it as at the end of the day they are only fooling themselves. The bit I find annoying is that it changes the context of the land and hence the rally through misdirection.

Thankfully we don't see too many of these on DW rallies, although I have had my doubts on the odd occasion.

On the other boot, following three rallies out of four where I had found a hammered coin (a shocking statistic for me :o). I had someone implying that I was bringing them with me to boost the find rate and he wasn't joking! I put it down to envy and the person being a prat - he knows who he is.

Interesting topic

Cheers
Neil

I was at a rally near Yeovil several years ago and a particular person kept bringing superb finds to the FLO, ( this was a time when having FLO on site had just begun). There were many whispers going around that he had been observed at other rallies doing the same and it was virtually certain he was bringing it all with him. I spoke to the FLO and and she auured me that there was doubt about most of the finds as they had no relation to known historical findings for the area, especially a Roman coin from a ruler who had never been in the area. When he came back the second time with loads of 'hammies', the murmurs grew, so I confronted him and accused him of bringing it all with him according to the whispers going around. He and his wife then stated; 'This always happens wherever we go, we won't be coming again' , They did not deny their actions. I was thanked later by others present for taking the courage to speak out, could have gone bad though,

Agree with you Geoff to a certain extent but the bigger picture is a lot of club activity is based on finds of the month competitions, which are then in turn related to best find of the event, or yearly awards for best or most interesting finds. These are all destroyed by this practice. Try cheating at a golf club to win the coveted yearly trophy for best golfer and see what happens.
Hopefully this subject will generate some responses from the hobby and will in itself, make the people doing this realises that people are not stupid and they will be caught at some point. The problem in my opinion is were not prepared to confront them, so they think their getting away with it.

There are two irritants for me. Firstly the habit of not filling holes or not filling them properly. It is just as prevalent as ever and risks the relationship with the landowner which the rally organiser may have built up over time. The other is the regular "alleged" find. In one club we had a member constantly producing good finds every time we had a rally. Eventually he was challenged and asked to leave the club and he just went to another club. The issue  is not just dishonesty and kudos seeking, these people can then go on to enter club finds competitions and distort the results.

I'm dubious of anyone who needs to join a club :D :D :D :D :D

Hi Geoff, I can't see why you would be dubious of someone joining a club,woudn't it be because maybe they are just starting out in the hobby and have no permisions of there own, not every one has been detecting as long as you and you have been lucky to aquire a lot of land over time,so maybe at present they have no option but to join a club. :) :) :)
 Geoff

Unless theres monetary gain from finding "coin of the rally"and other than distorting historical data
i don't see a problem.

I haven't been on many rallies but have had my doubts on certain finds I've seen based purely
on the finders expression when showing the find to the masses.

I could have read the signals wrong,but it wouldn't matter for i would have no interest confronting
the finder on the finds authenticity.

Its a bit like fishermans tales,and they are harmless.
Only the story teller knows the truth.

Most rallies I don't find something, and I'm fine about that. I detect for enjoyment and exercise.
Taking something is only kidding MYSELF.  What's the point?

I'm not in to finds league tables as the temptation is there for a participant to cheat to gain status.
I watch some people detecting and I'm amazed they find anything as their technique is not classic!

Part of the problem is proving someone is taking their own 'finds' to rallies is difficult to prove, and could be deemed a slander or libel, and possible legal implications.  The reality is it's really sad, and even laughable!

I don't think anything needs to be done except by detectorists themselves. If they are so insecure that they need to bolster their ego, then it's only them that will be able to sort themselves out.

I spoke to Cheff Geoff about the following on the weekend. Personally, I get more enjoyment going to a hunted out site or a field that I don't expect to find something, to do my detecting.

Finding a hammered coin or brooch doesn't do much for me these days. I get more of a thrill from finding a small deep coin that's obviously been missed. Most detectors with a competent user will find most targets, so it's getting that bit extra out of my machine that does it for me.

There's a lot worse things going on in the world, so I'm not too bothered if someone wants to bolster their ego.by claiming they found something when they didn't: Especially as it doesn't effect me as I don't participate in league tables or finds competitions.



 

I am more dubious of persons claiming Archeological links... ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

A subject that disheartens me greatly having observed this on quite a few occasions. When it was blatent to me that this practice is rife in our hobby at the end of the day the least we can do is confront these people. I have suspicions of a number of people who find good finds a bit to regular. Have for want of a better word shadowed them at rallies and would be able to give three peoples names of which two have shocked me greatly. It proves nothing, gives a false history to the area and leaves the persons credibility in tatters. As Neil says in his post finds come in odd ways and silly runs do occur but most finds will enhance what is already known about an area. Many clever people will know there local area like Chef does for instance, He will know the written history, the documentary evidence and the finds will back this up. Just remember those that are itching to be the centre of attention we all have the same interest and we also know what is available to buy online. Just don,t try and make us all look fools.

Find of the weekend at the Old Rallies back in 80s, were discredited by a few dishonest people bringing there best finds from their collections to claim a brand new and expense metal detector ,put up generously by the manufactors ...But that quickly came to an end when the companys cottoned on . ::) ::) ::)

That was tongue in cheek Geoff, yes I agree clubs are almost a must for anyone starting in the hobby, more for advice and encouragement than anything else. But unfortunately they are also the breeding ground of bad advice and bad practice.

That was a good chat Bob and nice to find someone else of a like mind. I love "detected out sites" and the challenge, like you Roman coins or brooches don't even get a wipe now a days, they go straight in the finds box :(

Clubs are a good thing as it brings a lot of knowledge and  expertise together, oh and purchasing power to bribe the farmer!  ;D

i often get accused of not bringing anything with me....lol

Your right mate as i sit along side 4 men at my club meetings who together with me have been detecting since early and mid 1970...170YRS +experience.....You cant buy or read that in books  :D :D

Met some really nice and interesting people by joining clubs. Also met some I wouldn't give the time of day to mind you..  :D

OMG that is so sad ,its like the fisherman taking a prize fish with him to the pond .wheres the challenge in cheating ?
ive never found a hammered ,never found a gold coin ,but i have found plenty of silver willy's,vickies and georgians.nothing worth bragging about really!!
as a fellow detectorist its nice to see other lucky people making good finds and i congratulate them 
when i went to my first club meeting last month i was jokingly asked "do you find much?" and i showed them my small wallet of silver that came from one field out back and i heard someone laughingly mutter "off ebay"
at the time i didnt understand what they were on about ,but now reading this i can see the frustration of long term members

Loved reading this post and all the comments made in response to it, and comments made about each others comments.  Great Post & Great Comments lads & lassies.  THANKS !!

I have never not believed anyone who have shown me one of their finds and have always been generally pleased for them.

I did not even realise this kind of thing happened until I heard a few comments recently.

I must be really naive! Or perhaps I just don't understand what a person would get from it?

To me it's all about the find - being the first person to pull something very old out of the ground and being the first person to touch it since it was lost.

Well regarding the ban the cheats i totaly agree with it they should be banned.They tend to join forums like this and make themselves known eventually with finding this and that and even though they supposed to have thousands of acres here and there,they still come to DW & other clubs for there weekly digs.Aswell as just noticing a certain person on here actually got banned from a club for buying stuff from EBAY and putting it on there site for the best  finds competition and he always had this and that found on the day of a dig, better than everyones.I basically wouldnt give him the time of day he knows who im talking about ive listened to him many times before i got wise.Beware hes slowly dwiddled his way into this club. :-X :-[ ??? 8) :o

i have heard rumours that peeps take or plant stuff at rallies to boost takings at the next ones,there will always be a bit of specilation as to what organisers get up too,goes with the terittory i guess but whats the point in taking finds with you?

That doesn't work for us. Many moons ago on our Easter Rally in Caerleon we planted 40 copper tokens in an area the size of half a football pitch. If you found one you won a chocolate Easter egg. Lets just say that Geoff went home with 36 unclaimed eggs in the back of his van! ;D ;D ;D

Pontless us seeding a rally, as going on that experience nobody would find "The Seeds" anyway! ;D ;D ;D

Neil

I told a non detecting friend of mine about this practice a little while ago. He was spechless but eventually just burst out laughing. And that about sums it up, these people are seeking attention in their sad lives but the only attention they'll get is to be despised and laughed at.

You can tell if something has been planted a  mile off!  Comes out of the ground different.

I think they are people who have few or no friends and do it to impress others so they get all the attention, a sad lonely existence being an attention seeker. Or they could setting themselves up so some variety agent will book them for a new  show called; I WANT A FRIEND.

i know a gent who's been doing this for many years buying stuff and planting it at rallies to get best of show attention and actually won a machine years ago.i am surprised its so widespread according to this thread .
he has now got a reputation as a walter mittey type and nobody trusts him any more as they know he sells stuff making out he has found it and planting at rallies to get attention as the 'big man'.
now i wonder what % of finds are being planted at rallies ?
it could be bigger than we imagine...
how you can get around this problem is hard to say ..

pmsl  ;D ;D

 I don't get cross it just makes me smile to think that they think I'm so dull that I wouldn't know .. But hey it takes allsorts !!!!!

Have long suspected this has been going on....have suspicions.. but can't really prove it...
However .. a few years back we did kick one guy out of our club for doing this... and it was 'proved' he was.
As they say.. "The truth will out'

And then there are the yanks coming over here on special (and expensive) organised detecting trips.
Its amazing how many find gold coins ..... :o
Just google around....
Once again ... can't really prove it...

The majority of us go out into the fields knowing that 9 times out of 10 we will come back with just a worn Georgian
and 'more buttons !!'  But then lady luck will look down on some of us as... it did with Terry Herbert of Staffordshire Hoard fame... and all those Georgians and buttons are forgotten. The anticipation, the discovery, the wonder of holding something untouched for hundreds or even thousands of years. Perhaps even having your find displayed for all time in a museum.
Thats why we love this hobby so much !  :) And... friends for life !  :)
Anyone in it for other reasons needs to look in the mirror
John

There was a case a few years ago when some chap presented his finds to an F.L.O. at a dig near Canterbury. You can imagine his face when the F.L.O. asked why there were traces of Blu Tack on the back of the coins.

As to the yanks coming over here attending expensive organised detecting trips and finding Saxon gold and all sorts of quality finds,I agree it seems to me the organises are planting the ground so they can get them back next year and make a fortune in the process.

Can it be proved ? of course not


Back to why people bring stuff to rallies and claim they have found it on the day


Its not always about winning find of the rally,or attention seeking


Some of these people do it simply to avoid paying off there farmers on the land they have really found the coins or artefacts on

I would personally disagree with that point. If they were going to stoop to that level of subterfuge, then all they would need to do is not show the farmer in the first place.

If they don't show the farmer there finds in the first place and  try to sell the finds it raises to many questions

The farmer could find out or be informed by someone else

So they take there finds to rallies and claim they have found them there

No, got to agree with Taff. Unless the item  is worth a few thousand, there's no way a bog standard sale of $50 or £100 is going to be noticed, so why bring it to a rally in the first place.

I am talking about high value items

i ve never seen high value items on any rally

Items over £200 + some people would rather keep it to them self's than give the farmer his rightful share

Unfortunately there is lots of metal detector users out there that never show the farmer there finds instead they take them to rallies and say "look what i have found"

Myself and my two detecting mates show are farmers all are finds irrespective of value, this is one of the reasons we have so much land  ;D

"Myself and my two detecting mates show are farmers all are finds irrespective of value, this is one of the reasons we have so much land  "

What`s the other reasons?
 :)

The other reasons are we put in a lot of leg work visiting farmers

okey-dokey

everyone goin to get frisked on way in?if not then you will never stop this stuff happening at rallies.bit pointless if you ask me  :o

And then there are the yanks coming over here on special (and expensive) organised detecting trips.
Its amazing how many find gold coins ..... :o
Just google around....
Once again ... can't really prove it...


na dont think that happens ,i think your talking about ChicagoRon and his team that comes over 3 times a year to colchester.
youve got to remember this Ron and at least 8 other guys start detecting at sunrise and go home at sunset ,ron was telling me that they dig at least 300 plus holes a day ,and just the other day he only found a couple of hammies ,law of averages means that 8 guys methodically search a field nothing gets overlooked

You mean if 8 of us methodically search (which they don't by the way, as random as they come) we will routinely find Roman and Saxon gold?
Have you been detecting long? lol

Of course the fields are planted  ;D

And they want there money, and for them to come back year after year.

The yanks are charged around a £1000 a week

The trips are usually 3 weeks so that's £3000 each x by around 20 people

£60000 not bad for the people organising it   ::)

They can afford to throw around hundreds of tatty hammereds and Roman coins to keep everyone happy

Even a few gold coins planted are not going to break the bank with the money that is been made

Of course stuff will get overlooked!...... no matter how methodically 8 people search they will never, ever, cover every inch of ground. 

Not long come back from corfe, finds seemed for most of us very hard to wrinkle out, though i did hear of someone finding two gold or silver while the camera's were rolling, dont know who it was or whether it was true or not or if someone was just winding me up ;D since i didnt find very much. ha ha.

Personally i would think the majority of us enjoy the hobby what ever we find, its the thrill of the chase ! And as said previously you have to put the coil over it to find it, cannot see why someone would want to cheat, pointless  ::)

So basically this makes the PAS and UKDFD a totally useless exercise as the finds are all fabricated.

That's a very good point. Not thought about that aspect.

I cant believe what i am reading on the subject of planted coins lol ....There is no guarantee if you planted 10,000 COINS on 1000 acres that a single planted coin would be found lol....Do you know how long it would take to plant them ..100s of hours as I helped plant tokens at the Oxford Rallies back in the 80s on a much smaller area than Weekend Wanders and i know that 30% of all tokens were never recovered...You can usually tell the difference between a planted object and a natural find ....Would you plant gold coins that might not be found ? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Your being very naive Rob, but that is not the subject of the thread anyway. It's about people who claim they found coins in places other than the actual find spot, for what seems like personal adulation.

planting coins is very easy to do wait till the muck spreader is about to be used pour buckets of coins  and grots into the spreader they are then spewed out then ploughed into the gound ,have you ever seen ,wanted buckets of grots ,

I was quoting relichunting Geoff in particular and being called naive thats a first. ::)..I was in building trade for thirty years with my own decorating business and people who knew me would not call me that ....I have already given my opinion on finds brought to sites for competition points or prizes  ::)

Very easy to plot the exact position of  planted gold coins,and some of the more valuable finds
 

If there not found the organises can easily go back and dig them back up after the event


I am convinced the fields are planted for the yanks visits,of course it can never be proved.


Grot hammered and Romans, can easily be thrown around the fields in handfuls weeks before the events

Cant see the yanks declaring anything to be honest.
would you in a foreign country?

Well its a bit dodgy if they don't,if there stopped going back through customs,they could have there finds confiscated


They only have to declare treasure items as far as I am aware,single gold coins wouldn't count ?


But then again would they need an export licence to take them out of are country ? 

Earlier this year our club held a rally with members from 6 clubs in attendance. One guy was showing everyone two saxon pins which he claimed he had found at the rally. Furthermore, he claimed these were found in the same hole. I was later told that he is well known within his own club for his dubious finds on club digs. The saddest thing was that the saxon pins went in the display case and were recorded by the Flo. Although it seems certain that they were not found at the rally, it can't be disproved and the finds will now have been given a false provenance. Only these people know what is going on in their heads! Very, very, sad people who are deluding themselves into thinking they are the best. It's all a bit like athletes who take drugs.

What sort of people would plant an object in the ground only to walk over it and pretend to find it.

Very very sad individuals.

At one time the big detecting firms used to be interested in supporting this hobby with
prizes and so on, but they soon became aware of this practise of falsely pretending to make
find to win these goodies. Another casualty of the greedy.
As you said, its just the sad attention seekers who seem to be spoiling it these days.

I must admit Bob....Last Sunday when you came back to your car having found three porn dvd's.....I did suspect you had taken them along with you !!!    but, if they were gen finds..... I may invest in a blisstool !!!    :o

 :D :D :D

How about people coming to a rally having to walk past a gang of people with metal detectors aimed at them? You could make it a tradition like a wedding guard of honour, walk through here and join our gang of honest detectorists!

I have had my doubts about some rallies in the past where loads of unusual and unexpected finds come up, particularly on "made" land where airports and landing strips have been sited. I have researched some sites where I have expected to find roman, saxon or medieval and no one finds anything of interest or from those periods, but the condition of the finds is usually the most telling. Finding a roman grot in a really dire state of rot next to another where theres not a mark on it is pretty confusing. I have found a roman coin on a rally that even I was not convinced was genuine. I always clean my finds in hydrogen peroxide wash that I carry in a spray bottle when I am out detecting and have found some of the dirt and corrosion comes off incredibly quickly and cleanly, but when I use the same technique on finds from my own sites, it takes hours of cleaning and washing to get a decent coin or brooch.

I never expect to find anything at rallies but I enjoy getting fresh air in different parts of the country so I'll carry on going to them. This is a hobby not a competition and I have no involvement in league tables or the like.

Eric

why ban them they pay money it all does to dw or other rallys they dont gain anything so why ban them. money lost towards other rallys.

worst plant i heard of was a small hoard or romans to win the big prize.
the farmer wasnt happy he did a runner and there was a hunt on for the perp in the TH magazines ,rubbish coins in the 'hoard' though

do you think there are planters operating on TH forums ?
making out they found things which they have bought somewhere ?
some pics look suspicious