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Author Topic: Hammered puzzle 14  (Read 4140 times)
The Doc
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« on: September 03, 2009, 09:24:15 PM »

Back to a short cross: monarch, mint, moneyer, class?
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hedgehog
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 10:36:54 PM »

Henry III, Simond , Rhuddlan, don't know the type, haven't got the information but the reversed N must define it.
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KANE (DES)
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2009, 12:19:24 AM »

henry 111shortcross,  rhuddlan
would it be simond on ruvla
6d-7a-b
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StumbledUpon
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2009, 05:50:42 AM »

I would love to find one of these coins, Smiley
Same as Hedgehog and Kane.

Group 1 class ii, SIMOND- cross pattee.
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vitallius (Dave)
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2009, 07:07:11 AM »

Well done you three, Im still looking at the last couple puzzles,Im not quite getting there with all the variations, but I have certainly started looking in more detail of the coins. Grin......Dave
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The Doc
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2009, 10:39:17 PM »

I would love to find one of these coins, Smiley
Same as Hedgehog and Kane.

Group 1 class ii, SIMOND- cross pattee.


You are correct Maxine Grin

For those that are not familiar with it, the Rhuddlan mint shortcross coins are described as an irregular local issue and are classified differently.

The coins were minted from 1180-1215, so were for Henry II, Richard I and John, but not Henry III.

The legends are sometimes retrograde (backwards) and there are often reversed letters.

The mint signature is usually RVLA, but can also be RVLAN, RVTLAN, RVT or RVLTN.

The only moneyers were hALLI, SIMON(D), hENRICVS and TOMAS.

The coins are classed  as two main groups, and five classes.

GROUP I (Similar to English classes 1-3)

Class i - c.1180-c.1190. Bust is similar to English class 1 with initial cross of pattée form. hALLI is the only moneyer.

Class ii - c.1190-c.1205. Similar bust but with fewer curls. Initial cross can be pattée or pommée. N's are usually reversed. Crown pellets in a 1-3-5 formation
Moneyers: hALLI - cross pommée and retrograde reverse legend; TOMAS - cross pommée; SIMON(D) - cross pattée.


GROUP II (Similar to English class 5)

Class iii - c.1205-c.1210.   Cross pommée. Moneyer SIMON(D). N's of early coins are reversed, but in later ones are normal. The crowns of early coins are similar to Class ii, but later coins have the pellets in a 1-2-5 pattern. Class iii can therefore be sub-divided into iiia and iiib using these features.

Class iv - c.1210. Cross pommée. Reverse legend retrograde. Moneyer SIMOD

Class v - c.1210-c.1215. Cross pattée. Very crude bust. Moneyer hENRICVS.

If you don't know your cross pattée from your pommée, the cross pattée is the one at the top of the reverse of the puzzle coin, and a cross pommée is shown in the pic below.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 10:42:11 PM by peterh » Logged
hedgehog
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2009, 11:44:33 PM »

We were all wrong then Peter, NOT Henry III, great explanation and another lesson learned , thank you  Grin
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handyman [Alan}
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 08:41:16 AM »

i hope this is an example of a henricus moneyer. this was the only find that i got in 3 hrs detecting yesterday - [not at LM].

any help in ID is appreciated.

cheers
handyman
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The Doc
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2009, 08:02:41 PM »

Hi Alan, that's a nice cut half. The moneyer is Beneit, who struck coins at the London mint for John Class 5b and 5c. Yours looks like a Class 5b.
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handyman [Alan}
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2009, 08:12:58 PM »

thanks peter, much appreciated of you taking the time to research it.

keep the info coming, i am learning lots!

cheers

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