DetectingWales.com

I found this in my garden 10 years ago together with a Charles ll Farthing.
It was found outside the window  of a small private chapel believed to be from c 15-16th cent.

If you look closely you can just make out a tiny hole in 2x of the horses hooves which would accept short pieces of wire which could support the figure . They are the only visible potential attachment or  fixing points.

. The casting is very crude and the molten bronze has been poured into a mould but cooled too quickly so that the back of the  figure is uneven.

My best guess is a Medieval toy or possibly a pilgrim badge ?

Any suggestions very welcome.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57957957@N08/6478371359/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57957957@N08/6478371359/#)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57957957@N08/6478433237/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57957957@N08/6478433237/#)

Your doing something wrong somewhere ???

Thanks Geoff. I usually use photobucket and copy the direct image link but these images are hosted by flickr and I just grabbed the only link they give. I used the (http://) so it should have worked ok ?
Think I have sorted it now . perhaps some kind soul could remove this post for me . Thank you.
Nick

Here you go:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6474300661_0cb0c5ed0c_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6474301083_6f239e4de6_b.jpg)

What is the scale of the graph paper ? I cant work the size out from your photos From a rough estimate if they are 3-4" I think it might be a horse brass (harness decoration)

that's a great find.........byron

thanks Doc  ;) how did you do that ?  ::)

Sorry the scale is cm
weight 75gms
thickness max 7.2mm
length   78.4mm
height   approx 87mm (legs are buckled)

Thanks Byron ,I'd forgotten about this find to be honest. I'd like to find out a date and use for it if I can. If its Medieval I'll register it.

I've decided to dig the garden lawn over ....which gives me a perfect excuse to do a thorough search  ;D

Hi Nick
Do a Google search for Charles 1st paintings and click on the one by Anthony van Dyck. Unless I'm mistaken there is a very real resemblance there.

Val

I think it depicts someone from a few years before Charles I as the figure is wearing an Ruff which pins him to the period between roughly 1550-1620.

thanks Val ,any chance of a link ?  Is this the painting you were referring to ?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Anthonis_van_Dyck_046.jpg/475px-Anthonis_van_Dyck_046.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Anthonis_van_Dyck_046.jpg/475px-Anthonis_van_Dyck_046.jpg)

I think that you are right Geoff. The ruff is pretty  diagnostic as is the style of armour and horse equipment. I suspect its going to take a bit of research .
My feeling is that the figure is moddeled on someone pretty important and well known  because of the laurel type head adornment and armour.

It looks like he may be sporting a beard though I suppose it could be part of his visor I suppose?

mmmm could it be our dear old enry? Henry vlll ? the armour is certainly very similar as is the very distinctive ornate breast collar on the horse

But you would once again have the problem of the ruff (especially that size) I don't personally think he is wearing a helmet or if he is it doesn't fit with the armour of that period. The band or laurel on his head is not dissimilar to the one depicted by Laurence Olivier in Henry V, but how true to reality that was I don't know.
But of course it is just a representation OF not a direct likeness TO, so artistic licence is expected.

I'm beginning to feel that It may not be a ruff afterall.Tis too shallow for a ruff methinks. ;D    Perhaps it is the collar of the armour upon which sits the helmet .?

I'm not sure that they would have worn a ruff with armour on horseback and even a representation would have looked a bit silly at the time. Especially considering that it would have been an important well know figure and how vain they were back then about appearance ::)

Judging by the considerable detail of the sculpting I would say that this figure is likely to have been very accuratly copied as apposed to representational.

Henry v thats an excellent  idea . I'm now also thinking   Plantagenet !   ;)

No, I think Tudor/Stuart is the period and it would only be representational. One thing we tend to forget in our multi media world is that 99% of people would never see any of the famous people of the time so they would be represented by the fashion rather than their looks. Even the monarch would only be known by their coinage.
But sweeping all this aside for a moment, looking at the lack of patina on it I have a gut feeling that it is more likely 20thC.

there was somthing like this on here about a year back.....but now we ve changed servers we ve lost all our pictures  :(.........if I rember correctly iI think it was a victorian door mounting

the engraving here of henry v shows a lot of similarities of period styling. The knee and elbow armour the thigh segmented armour, the martingale bit, the breast collar design,
Notice the way the horses head is held high and back. This is very distinctive of that period . The horses were even bred to have thick necks like that.
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_image.aspx (http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_image.aspx)

My feeling is that it cannot be 19th or 20th century because nothing was cast so crudely in the industrial revolution period . Victorian iron and steel engineering was superbly crafted and the Victorians were very exacting about quality and finish.

The figure has very fine detail but is a simple crude pouring cast as apposed to the lost-wax method which would give a figure in-the -round rather than bas relief. The finish is polished and has a deep patinia just as bronze might have.
Plus I wouldn't expect bronze to be used more likely lead or pewter or some alloy mix even copper or tin but not bronze.

I agree about 99% of common folk never seeing much of what goes on in the cities in the  Plantagenet /Tudor period . There were many paintings ,engravings, books etc but again only the educated would have access to them but whoever sculpted this figure originally would need pictorial material in order to sculpt in such detail. Presumably it must have been available even back then

thats an interesting idea but don't you think its a bit small for fitting to a door ? It doesn't seem to have any means of fixing or attaching it other than 2x tiny holes drilled in the horses feet.

I'm wondering if you and Geof are right afterall. i suppose it could be something like a Victorian clock enbellishment ?