FARMER v LANDOWNER

[Kev]

DIG IT (ADE) and  i were out detecting on land over man-mole on a farm iv got and have had permission off the farmer to detect on,we have been up there three times before and must say get on really well with the farmer,in fact the farmer came up about h-hour after DIG IT and i started detecting to let me know what land he had altogether to let us see where we can detected on, he was busy at the time but came up to show us anyway ,i thought that was great of him to do so. dig it and i carried on till about 3pm and called it a day ,we did not find a lot tho DIG IT did find a Vicky sixpence, we go back to the cars and had a cuppa and a chat before we were going , then a man and woman came up the lane on push bikes the man carried on ridding a bite but the woman stopped and said"DO YOU KNOW THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY" i said yes and we have permission off the farmer,she said "WHO IS THAT" ,i said the Mathew the farmer,she said then"HE IS NOT THE LAND OWNER HE JUST RENTS THE LAND",i said as far as we are concerned we have had permission off him.so i also said to her that i will ring Mathew the farmer, by then i was a bit naff ed with the attitude of her but kept calm and polite.i could have said more to her especially with the altitude she had , could of said what is it to do with you but didn't .i rang Mathew the farmer on the way home and told him about this woman, and he said she is of a bit of a trouble maker around that area ,and he said dont worry about her you can come here any time. the thing is how do we stand with the situation on if the farmer only rents off the landowner, i know we have had this topic before but it does come to light know and again.

[Chef Geoff]

Hi Kev
I'm afraid under law the landowner has the final say unless there is a special clause in the rental agreement regarding mineral rights. Land is rented from the ground up. So a tenant would be granting you ownership of something (finds) that he does not own, technically you would be committing theft and the farmer fraudulent deception and aiding and abetting.

Chef

[Kev]

thanks MILLSY,CHEF will take this on board,will speak to the farmer on this issue cheers guys

[altinkum]

this has happened to me i asked farmer for permission with was granted went on the land for 2yrs then found a small hoard of shortcross hammered with i reported to the mueseum who told me to inform the landowner when i did i was told he only rents the land. i got in touch with the real landowners who turned out to be a quarry and when i informed them of my find this guy went ballistic YOU HAD NO RIGHT BEING ON THERE so the coins are still in the mueseum after 2yrs has i cant pick them up without the landowners being present and vice verser. the landowners have offered me 1 coin for my collection out of the 6 found so i have told mark i've disclaimed them. live and learn.  ps the agent acting for the landowner is the most arogant prat you'll ever meet so it's a good job we'll never meet face to face as i think i would straighten him out.  mike

[hedgehog]

It's a nightmare, land ownership is very complicate sometimes, Chef is right, you need permission off the actual landowner.
On the plus side Kev they usually say if you have got permission off the tenant then that is ok.

[Kev]

 i feel for altinkum for what he as gone through with the hoard he found , sorry to here about this situation 

[DIGGA]

YOU GET PEOPLE LIKE THAT EVERYWHERE KEV................IVE HAD IT  AND TOLD THE MAN IN QUESTION I HAD PERMISSION FROM THE LAND OWNER......................AND WHEN HE REPLIED WITH A STREAM OF ABUSE  I OFFERD POLITLY  TO  RE  ARRANGE HIS HAIR FOR HIM ...................WITH MY SHOVEL    SUPPRISINGLY ENOUGH  HE DIDENT TAKE UP THE OFFER   AND WALKED AWAY  MUTTERING TO HIMSELF.............................JOB DONE    THERES ALLWAYS SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO HAS TO STICK THEIR BEAK IN 

[mole]

Digga!!! your right about people sticking their noses in other peoples business it happened to me and my detecting butty a few years ago in Pontypridd we we detecting on the common behind the park where the cenotaph is when I noticed a man approaching my butty who was detecting afew yards from  me not taking any notice of this I carried on detecting about twenty minutes later he appeared beside me and asked how was I detecting on there with this I replyed is there a problem yes he said he did,nt think we should be detecting there as the local council would,nt allow him to practice teeing off on the common Itold him he,d better take it up with the powers that be  ???this did,nt seem to sink in so I referd him the the sign post on the edge of the common which stated what activites were not permitted a polite  P- - - OFF    SEEMED TO EVENTUALLY HAVE THE RIGHT EFFECT MOLE

[waltonbasinman]

Don,t know if it is a Herefordshire thing but I have met a few farmers who came across very cagey. On in particular was very distant and I felt he had something to hide. Went in the wood when he was at market and found the old quarry in the wood full of illegally dumped chemicals and containers. Other wise unknown to any one I felt it had to be reported. which happened anonymously. Turned out he only rented the farm from the council.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

[Chef Geoff]

Ah yes farmers are not backwards at coming forward when there is money to be made.

I think the worrying thing that is happening more and more is a clause which states no metal detecting. This is happening with land owned and leased out by the Church and Universities and it's amazing just how much land they own.

Chef

[Tafflaff (Rob)]

The way around this is to print off a land/ Detecting contract , that way the landowner cant turn around and say permission was not given (say if you found a large hoard) And not only that you could wave it in someones beak if they stuck it it! Word of warning though , and this is why I'm yet to do a contract with a farmer. It could frighten the farmer off when it comes to granting permission.

[Chef Geoff]

I usually get them to sign one by saying most farmers like to have one, because remember the contract is for us more than for the farmer, the things in and on his land are his whether we find them or not.

Chef

[zorro]

ive found that land owners and land "renters" get very cagey when you ask them if they want you to sign contracts

[Al.Thepastfinder, ( Alan )]

yeah sometimes farmers will let you on but don't tell you their only renting it off someome else,
 its the landowners land after all and its he or she that should grant the permission,,  then its only curtouise to ask the renter then especially if there are crops involved,
iv'e had some fields for a few years, but then the farmer started renting some out,  i didn't have a clue who he was, he was from outside the area,, the fields only pasture for sheep grazing, but i was passing one day and i spotted him in there with his landrover so i stopped and went and introduced myself and told him i have permission off the landowner is it ok  with him if i carry on detecting now,  yes,  no probs he said,  so at least i done it,,  what may have made it easier i reported to another local farmer a couple of months ago that i go to about some of this  sheep had got onto the golf coarse so he phoned him up and told him  before too much damage was caused.

[farmer(phil)]

Thanks Geoff and Al, bit clearer now

Got about 12 farmers land, and some of these rent another 2 or 3 farms each

I'll be careful to find out whats rented.

The next land I'm going on - got permission of both the farmer and the landowner ( he's got other land he farms himself)

Farmer Phil