DetectingWales.com

Been looking for a nice older second hand 7 seater to replace my overley expensive 2 yr old Galaxy. My wife foind a nice 02 Renault Espace in one of the Garages in the Treforest area.

We picked the car up and as soon as we got onto the industrial estate the car started missing. Phoned the garage and they said fuel it up cos it was empty and had probably picked up some muck off the bottom of the tank. I filled the tank and also put some Redex in. Pulled onto the A470 and the car would not go over 50. Also every time I broke there was a grinding noise from the gearbox and a clank.

I phoned the salesman and he said we're shut now, fetch it down in the morning. We did this and on the way down the A470 going around a left bend there was another clank and the car lurched a few feet to the right. I nearly lost it! 

I got to the garage and the mechanic said there was a coil box gone and  2 gear box mountings broke. This is a car that had just had a full examination by said mechanic the day before. We insisted on out money back and he said the boss would have to phone us . Though he was not in at the moment. Train home no car.

Now the boss is giving us the run around , not returning calls, and passing messages that he'll get the car fixed.

I've checked the sales of goods act and It states that the goods must be fit for purpose. As far as second hand cars go. Private sales only need to be 'As described'  but second hand cars from commercial garages must 'Be safe and suitable to get you from A to B'  clearly this car is not. I have contacted VOSA and they agree that mounting brackets are most definately a safety issue and that no car leaving a place of commercial sale should have broken gearbox mounting brackets. I've also contacted Trading standards who are taking up the case as a safety issue.

In the meantime I have no car.

Flaming Heck Rob, Thats more than a bit naughty. My first thoughts would be contact ITV Ferret, that Chris Seggar loves dodgy garages.
I think you should name and shame the Garage, I'm going to replace the old Pajero soon, i'l not be going there.
I doesn't bare thinking about what could have happened. If your not happy naming on the Forum, sent me a PM Mate. I'm mad for you  >:( Rotten gits

I wont name them on the forum as I do not know the legalities involved. Last thing I want is being lumbered with a slander or lible case against me.

As soon as I saw the word Renault I knew it would be bad. I agree if you get no joy you should definitely get on to The Ferret, Rob.

Also, I can't see how putting the name of the garage up could be libelous, since everything you've stated can be proven as true.  ???

rob insist on a refund my brother in law had a silver 02 espace from a garage near blackwood never went right from leaving the forecourt not even renault them selfs could fix it lucky for my brother in law his wife is a evil cow and loves a confrontation and they soon had a gutsfull and refunded their money if they mess you around maybe 50 or so detecorists phoneing and enqiuring non stop may persuade them to do the right thing

MELONHEAD.
WHAT A GREAT IDEA MATE.
BUT LIKE ROB SAID HE CANT NAME THE GARAGE YET.
FOR LEGAL REASON.S.
BUT WHAT A CRACKING IDEA THAT WAS BUTTY.IF EVERYONE PHONED UP ON DETECTINGWALES.THE FELLA WOULD CRACK UP.
HE CANT CHANGE HIS NUMBER ALL THE CARS NUMBER PLATES ADVERT.S
PHONE NUMBER.S ARE ON EVERYTHING.SO HE CANT CHANGE THE NUMBER.
GREAT IDEA MELLONHEAD.
RAY

rob, i think you were lucky, anything could have happened if the gear box dropped to the floor and lost control of the car,when you get your money back leave the french stuff alone.viv

Trust is a privilege never earned twice.bet you wont go there again.lol.
if you dont know anything about cars you should always take a mechanic with you or somebody that knows what he is looking at.saves a lot of trouble. ;)

rob ive been told that trading standards have already prosecuted a number of garages in the treforest area for selling un road worthy cars so i hope its some help mate.
DES

Cheers Des thanks for the advice fella. VOSA and trading standards are investigating it.

Thanks

You are correct Rob, under the sales of goods act, if the goods are defective you are entitled to a full refund.

However, getting it isnt as easy. It is worth a phone call to citizens advice as well.

Problem with a lot of used car sales, they re opinion of a full check up on conditon of car and our opinion of a full check up differs ! I dont think many garages check them, that way they can question the buyer as to who is responsible and over what time period faults developed.

If you drive off a forecourt, and develope a fault your entitled to a full refund.

 Blimey,  that is bad of them Rob,  you should win, but its all the hassle and inconvenience in the meantime, doh,  best of luck with it anyhow,
Alan

Rob dont know about the libel/slander issue. if the story you've told is true, not suggesting it isn't , then you cannot be sued for slander or libel you are simply re-tell an incident that happened.
i'd call police myself get them involved mate.

Ok its taken until now , but yesterday I won my claim against the garage. They strung the court along and in the end failed to enter a defence so now they are lumbered with the bill to pay me and a CCJ. Enforcment proceedings will take place if they do not cough up by Wednesday next week.

excellent news rob, hope they are paying up for expenses incurred as well. .

am working on the other matter for you.

cheers

rob great news,they should be made to pay for all the problems and inconvenience they have cause.viv

Well done indeed Sir Rob. Perseverance pays dividends. Pity it had to happen but with the law now on your side hope you end up with a decent set of wheels old boy. I know where a Fiat Panda is going £50.00. Six up to Bristol no problem.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

hi rob its good to hear that things are moving for you,
hope its settled soon all the best DES

Good news! I had a bad experience buying from a garage in Porth last year...ended up losing a lot of money. Wish I had taken them on now  :-\

well done rob glad you won, bet you will be glad to have the money to buy another car
debs

Good new Rob ;0)

Once its all settled dont forget to tell us who these jokers are so we can avoid them

all the best
Phil

well done Rob, i knew you'd win that case,  what a bunch of jokers hey,  don't they just try it on,

Well done Rob, im in the middle of an on going claim myself mate. Fridge freezer packed up after 2 years. manufacturers say "its out of warranty", well known department store i bought it from say "manufacturers wont replace".......
Trading standards say "shop have legal liability to repair,replace or refund".
the supply of goods act 1982 says ( basically) the a trader must ensure an item is fit for the prupose it was designed and last a reasonable time, subject to wear and tear. Trading standards suggest 6 years for a fridge freezer is acceptable.
Trader ( dont know if i can name them YET!!!) now trying to shift responsibilty onto manufacturer, who, obviously aren't buying it (so to speak)
If i dont hear from trader by end of day a recorded letter going to them on monday with a 10 day notice to respond or court action notice will follow.

Its nothing to do with the manufacturer, it is the traders responsibility as they are the ones who sold it to you. Dont let them pass the buck onto the manufacturer.

Yes i know that Rob . trader is saying they are trying to get manufacturer to replace...frankly i dont give a MONKEYS who replaces it but someone is going to.
as i understand it the trader puts pressure on manufacturer to replace with the threat of cancelling future orders unless they do so. this is after giving the consumer the run around for a while to see if they will drop the case, which wont happen here!
had email from this well known and (supposedly) reputable trader saying they have sent engineers report and are await reply from them.
hopefully on tuesday morning the trader will have letter from me giving them 10 days to shift their a***s.
have to say Trading standards have been BRILLIANT !!! they sent me template letters, copies of supply of goods act, and some excellent advice. would recommend anyone who has a problem/complaint with a purchased item to give them a call.
Traders have been getting away with selling us extended warranties that are totally unnecessary  for years ...and like mugs some of us have paid through the nose for them when we didnt need to!
VOTE for me and i'll make all traders answerable for their underhanded deeds !!!!!
Sorry guys, got carried away with all the election nonsense going on  :o

WELL DONE ROB , I KNEW YOU WOULD WIN,,,,,,AND KEV , I'M GOING THROUGH THE SAME PROCEES AS YOU , BUT MINE IS A WASHING MACHINE THAT HAS LASTED 2 YEARS

Well done Rob m8, glad you won bud
Ace  ;)

I'll try and get some info from detectordave..he used to work for Comet and might know "the ropes"

Well done Rob - really pleased for you mate - well done on sticking to your guns.

I will now cancel my Ely boys from paying the garage a visit as discussed! ;)

Great news mate
Neil

Just to update you all on this nightmare I've had. its still going on

I took the garage to court and followed the Court process to the letter.

1/ I wrote to the garage requesting my money back and gave them 2 weeks.
2/ After no reply  I sent a follow up letter giving the garage another week.
3/ I filled out the court forms and paid out another £80
4/ The court allowed the garage 2 weeks to respond/defend to the claim.
5 On last possoble day the garage replied to court that they would defend claim fully, thus earning them another 2 weeks grace.
6/ 2 weeks grace up and no defence filed.
7/ Court served CCJ on Garage.
8/ I now had to pay another £100 to instruct bailiffs to Enforce the warrant.
9/ After several visits by bailiffs no result.
10/ Bailiffs then threatened to take cars from the forecourt to sell as payment.
11/ Garage owner informs bailiffs that none of the cars on forecourt belong to garage, but to a car agency.
12/ Bailiff now insists that garage hand over the original car I had bought.
13/ Garage Informs Bailiff that they have RESOLD THE BLOODY CAR  >:(
14/ Bailiffs instruct me to contact Police as this is obviously Illegal.
15/ Car reported stolen by me to police
16 Police contacted me today to inform me there is nothing they can do as this claim was originally sorted through Civil court so now its out of their hands.
17 I now need to inform the bailiff of this but he's on holidays  ::)
18/ Oh yeah the garage has also now put the business through for the 5th time and have left a trail of ripped of people in their wake, they have also reopened in the same place, same staff, slightly different name.


Apart from that all is going well.  :-[

jeez mate youve had a rough ride,,hope you can sort it out,,,i thought i was bad off when i brought a brand new car off a proper showroom related to the car company had loads of optional extras,had a 3 year waranty ,,,,,,,6 months later company went to the wall ,,,,bloody rover for ya  ;D ;D

Hi mate,

No loads of people who have been in this situation , 1 tips make sure when u buy a car to go for a good test drive , ask all the history check matching number , open and close the door a little crackling noise that tell you this car been in a accident  look for the line of the car from back to front and front to the back see if the car body work is straight  if not walk away mate , if you do this in front of the sales man you will see if he  look a bit worry . Pardon my french i know someone who try to screw me thinking i am french maybe stupid lol i told him  he was a joke and will review is business and  so i did well easy to make yourself a bad business than a good one and my luck i saw him in a car boot selling car parts and well if i did again shouted this guy is a scam and sell stollen cars why i did say that i dont know but i think if he see me he will play karate with me lol. just to tell you mate they will eventually get court one day and if you ever need help to buy a car let me know  i  am a car fanatic and also have build few my next one will be a chevy when i get a better job. 

forgot to say mate when u get things done with that garage give me is number  ,  i will phone him and few of my friends about good 50 will do that for me also that will boost the numbers a bit thats all ahhhhh .Aller bonne chance.

Napoleon34

 ::)    <  that will be is eyes after few phone calls

LOL at Napoleon! you are mad :D

OK I've not as yet named the car dealership, however I've just found out that he's been taken to court by Fair trading . Ans prosecuted.  See Mr De Gallo, sooner or later you get caught. Heres the article on the R.C.T site.



Treforest Car Dealer Prosecuted
A Treforest car dealer who sold a car that presented “a danger to its user and other motorists” has narrowly escaped prison.

Rhondda Cynon Taf Council’s Trading Standards officers had no choice but to prosecute Frank Gallo, of Treforest Car Trade sales, after hearing the complaints from the man who bought the car for his 17-year-old daughter, who had just passed her driving test.

The complainant bought the vehicle, a 2001 Ford Ka, in June 2009 from Frank Gallo at his premises on the Treforest Industrial estate.

At the time, Gallo claimed the vehicle had belonged to a relative of one of his employees and it came with a long MOT.

Within two weeks of the purchase, the man noticed faults with a car and took it to a local garage for repair. As they worked on the vehicle, mechanics noticed a catalogue of faults and urged the complainant to contact Trading Standards.

A formal complaint was made and investigations by Trading Standards included an independent inspection of the Ford Ka, which discovered defective brakes, suspension, fouling and chaffing of the main fuel line and a misaligned rear wheel.

It was the conclusion of the inspector that the faults were in place when the vehicle was sold to the complainant and that they would have been identified had Gallo or his staff carried out a quality and safety inspection as part of its duty of care to the safety of customers.

The inspector concluded that the sale and supply of the vehicle in that condition presented a danger to the user and other motorists.

Throughout the investigation, Mr Gallo insisted the car was sold in a roadworthy condition and the faults were caused by the driving style of the new owner.

He was charged with one offence under the General Product Safety Regulations 2005, a charge he admitted when appeared before Pontypridd Magistrates’ Court last month.

The court accepted his guilty plea, but felt the matter was beyond their punishment means and sent Gallo to Cardiff Crown Court for sentencing.

At the hearing on August 19, the court heard how the complainant had only driven a maximum of 300 miles when problems began to arise with the vehicle.

The judge also noted that the fact this offence happened in May 2010, just months after Gallo had been in court for a similar offence committed in 2008, meant Gallo was, in essence, committing a similar offence while “on bail”.

He stated that the public at large are put at risk with the sale of a defective product and that he had to press on Gallo the seriousness of the offence, using him as an example that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated as the courts seek to protect the public.

Gallo was sentenced to a five-month prison sentence that was suspended for two years and ordered to complete 120 hours unpaid work within the next 12 months.

If he fails to complete the hours, or commits another offence, he will be sent to prison.

He was also ordered to pay £1500 contributions towards costs, at a cost of £25 a week, with first payment due as soon as he has finished paying off the fines and costs from his 2009 sentence.

David Jones, Head of Community Protection at Rhondda Cynon Taf Council, said: “This is the second time we have had cause to prosecute Frank Gallo for the sale of vehicles with dangerous defects and I hope this serves as a warning to him and others that we do work proactively on behalf of our communities to protect them.

“Car dealers have an exceptionala duty of care to their customers and road users. The consequences of them failing to ensure that the cars they sell are safe could result in potentially fatal road traffic accidents– they must ensure the vehicles they sell are of the highest possible standards. We will continue to our work to detect traders who are not taking their responsibilities seriously and ,, including our proactive, annual forecourt survey to check the standards of vehicles being offered for sale, to ensure this happens.

“In cases such as this where it doesthey do not, we will take enforcement action.”

*Frank Gallo appeared in court last November for sentencing after admitting, again, a charge made under the General Product Safety Regulations. The case involved a Citroen Saxo he sold while trading as Autosave in Nantgarw, which was found to have dangerous defects that rendered the vehicle unroadworthy and dangerous. On that occasion Gallo was fined £1500 and ordered to pay £1000 costs and a £15 victims surcharge.

 arr a result, nice one Rob,  he seems to have a long history of it then the blighter.  at least he can be named and shamed now so's people can stay away from there,