EU Vote VOTE TO LEAVE !!!

[outlaw]

Its about time the battle of Britain spirit was reborn.

Its time we found our identity once more, have a governm,ent that speaks for the country instead of puppets that are ruled by unelected officials in Brussels, whether you like Kinnock or not,
he and his wife and son earn hundreds of thousands of pounds per anum making laws for the uk to abide by, yet was never ever elected for office in the uk !

Yes if we come out I would imagine for a couple of years things might be tough, but it would get better. We would develope new industries, ship building, mining, steel, car manufactureing.
The eu need us more than we need them.

We pay 55millions pounds every day for membership !

The in campaign are set to frighten us, that our security is at threat, even securing Obamma to clarify this argument. Bull shit !

Are you honestly going to believe every eu company that has set  up business in the uk will pull the plug and move back, its purely a threat.
if they did I would say pay back the millions of pounds in subsidy they are given by various governments to set up in the first place.

If our borders were such that we could wALK INTO another member state, well ok that would be slightly different, but we are an island.

We could quite easily stand on our own two feet.

If the yes vote to stay ii the eu wins there is nothing to state the eu will not just revert back to their original plan....federal Europe run by Germany, France.

When you think camerson had to except a very watered down agreement, we have no control over our own borders.

All those asylum seekers etc once they are granted EU status, they can then move freely to whichever member state they want to go too.

I find it very difficult to understand this austerity, well in Newport those waiting on the council waiting lists have now been told alot of the available housing has been allocated to syrian refugees !

I rest my case !

[dingdong]

Well Outlaw,well said,and so far the consensus of opinion is that we want out,and the sooner the better for all....now let's not stop the momentum.
I want my grandchildren to be able to tell their kids.
WE DID WHAT WAS RIGHT!!!

[outlaw]

Its a case of stand up and be counted !

I agree.

Its a case of not being intimidated by the other side.

Cameron came back with nothing,

Its trying to convince people that we are capable of going it alone. !

[Chef Geoff]

Well the battle of Britain spirit should be easy to recreate as the most successful squadron during it was 303 which was entirely made up of Polish pilots
And I'm afraid if we came out the "jungle" refugee camp in Calais would be very quickly transferred to Kent as the French are the ones not letting them in to Britain if we stopped being part of the team then the French would only be too happy to pass the problem on to us

Hey Dungbeetle, privatisation of the National Health !!!
When I lived and worked in Spain, I had private medical .
And yes i had to pay, but I tell you what,it was worth every peseta/ Euro.
You go to doctor ,first time get medication,second visit,no change in your ailment,no repeat prescription, you get to see a specialist within a fortnight !
Paying for what you get,commands respect !!!👍

Totally agree with you the best medical service I've received was in France, the beauty of a private system is that if you go to the Doctor and don't like the service you get they know that next time you'll go elsewhere so it's in their interest to do a good job.

[Dungbeetle]

Outlaw, you say we would develop new industries, steel making, ship building, mining and car making. The Tories who want us out of Europe shut these down thirty years ago and are never going to start again. If we do get out of Europe the first losers will be small farmers who will lose the subsidy they get off Europe that keeps a lot of them solvent.

[Resurgam]

                       Sadly, the UK farming industry has one of the highest suicide rates in the land. I wonder if it will be even higher if your predictions are correct Chris.

                       Perhaps it is time that we woke up and realised that democracy is an illusion. After all is said and done; Spain once democratically elected a socialist government and we all know what happened after that. It was only recently that a high ranking British officer said that he would refuse to take orders from Jeremy Corbyn should he be elected prim-minister.

                      Following the siege at Rork's Drift, the high command of the British army had this to say about the rabble that successfully held off the Zulu hordes.................." They did no more than fight like rats in a trap!" Oh, and how long did it take them to strike a medal for our boys in "Bomber Command"? As for the Welshman who's body was used in operation "Mincemeat"; was his poisoning accidental or, as an expendable vagrant, was he deliberately poisoned?  

                      There is nothing wrong with the concept of a United States of Europe; only with the hoards of ne'er-do-wells riding the Brussels gravy train. Get your heads together and replace all our MPs with peoples that we truly know will do an honest job.

                      Ooooh, gotta go; my blood's up!  



                      

                        

[outlaw]

Outlaw, you say we would develop new industries, steel making, ship building, mining and car making. The Tories who want us out of Europe shut these down thirty years ago and are never going to start again. If we do get out of Europe the first losers will be small farmers who will lose the subsidy they get off Europe that keeps a lot of them solvent.

I make my living from what you call the small farmer, nearly all the farming comunity want to be paid a realistic sum for what they produce in the real market place and want an end to the subsidies. You'd be surprised howmany want out of Europe !

Yes it was tories who privatised our industries and made millions selling them. I didnt agree with it then and still dont ! The last bastion in uk is now the farmers, everything else is unwound or going.

If this carries on the service industry in the uk will eventually outnumber the manufacturing base, it may already . It seems to me the politions just want us to become a holiday isle like Greece.
  
We could have in this country an infastructure to once again build the ships aircraft cars and do anyway design new technologies but it nearly always goes abroad for lack of funding.

There are very powerful people behind the scenes who we do not know, who at any cost want us in Europe. They got rid of Thatcher because she said NO to Europe.

In late1988/90 ish when John Major was shagging Edwina there were a few objections notably ( not Edwina lol )  one ,Churchhill's son who bitterly opposed the signing and ratifying the Maestrict Treaty. Problems was at that time, Michel Helsitime (apologies cannot spell their names ) announced to the UK that 90 coalmines were going to close, it was a brilliant political ploy ! It took the whole uk's eyes off what
the tories were about to sign and onto the pits closing !

John Major said at the time to his party you either toe the line or he would call an election. So rather than risk losing their jobs ( they didnt mind rest of uk being made redundent ) they ratified the treaty. Douglas Hurd is renouned for ssigning the treaty without reading what he had signed !

They rewarded John Major for being such a good prime minister with a knighthood, I bet his wife diddnt see it that way !

People need to consider that  in the 90's the objectors like myself all said that future governing parties in the uk would eventually just be puppets being told by Europe what to do.

Nearly everything now if it is a change has to be agreed in Brussels, the government of the day have to ask permission !

It will in the future end up, that we probably wont have a govement as we know it.

I find it very frustrating, that people cannot see that we as a small vibrant nation should have control over our own borders and armed services AND WE DO NOT !

( the jungle as Chef refers would not be transferred to Kent. Its a scaremongering tactic, that has already been squashed) shame on you !

In the Maestrict Treaty, there are many worrying clauses. " That if any member state continues to refuse to act in accordance with the treaty they have signed, a European police force will be sent to ensure
compliance " ! ( worst case scenario ) I jest Not.

Another stated "that no member state should have an unfair advantage over other member states ", that covers a wide spectrum. I have alwaays been convinced that is one of the reasons why our industries are being wound down and put into European control !

[Chef Geoff]

WHOA WHOA WHOA!
You can't accuse me of scaremongering about something that can't possibly be quashed until the possibility no longer exists (though if the UK is going to pay the French police wages that's different) and then post

"In the Maestrict Treaty, there are many worrying clauses. " That if any member state continues to refuse to act in accordance with the treaty they have signed, a European police force will be sent to ensure
compliance " ! ( worst case scenario ) I jest Not"

Where does it say that Now I'm no expert on the Maastricht Treaty in fact I'm not even an informed amateur but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have a clause saying that if we don't implement the current kitchen hygiene rules we are suddenly going to end up with armed Carabinieri stood outside No 10 I could be wrong so please tell me which clause states this...

I've just watched Nigel Farage on the Andrew Marr program and it's OK we can all relax on the "jungle" in Kent fear as apparently they wont come here because we'll tell them "You can't come!" that's OK then  lol

[b.buoy]

Enjoying this debate.
So far, I vote Outlaw for prime minister and Chef Geoff as his adviser. This way we could have the best of all worlds
I personally still want to leave however.

[Chef Geoff]

 
God if I was in government we wouldn't have to leave Europe Europe would probably want to leave us lol

[outlaw]

"In the Maestrict Treaty, there are many worrying clauses. " That if any member state continues to refuse to act in accordance with the treaty they have signed, a European police force will be sent to ensure
compliance " ! ( worst case scenario ) I jest Not"


I can assure you in the original draft of the Maestrict Treaty signed by Douglas Hurd and Majors tory government there were clauses about the implementation of a European police force, and what it would be used for in the worst case scenario !!!!  ( I will try and find it )

In the 90's I was a keen demonstrator against it, the Hansard was sent to me direct as and when the Maestrict treaty was debated in the commons, i am not joking. You could see at the time they were going regardless of any objection to ratify it.

And Geoff the issue of the jungle was debated a while ago when the scaremongers came from beneath their stones to cry wolf. It wont happen whether we are in or out.

If I was prime minister I would welcome your level headedness as my junior advisor LOL.
If you cannot speak English you cannot live in UK.

what really got my biscuit is reading about our soldiers not being able to wear their uniforms in certain places in UK so as not to offend Muslims. ( a different issue )


It costs every day approx. £33 million pounds our contribution for membership, some quote 55 million but we do get some rebate on the agricultural policy. On top of that even though there was supposed to be an opt out, we still had to cough up millions to bail out Greece/ Ireland and although Cameron states we have an opt out now, its unlikely to stand after a yes vote to stay in.

As a country we have lost control.

I will be honest geoff i remember as a child my parents same age group as you and me, didnt like the new order of changes coming about. I do worry that the young who like us are living through changes and like us then, do not really see what or why their elders are complaining.  Sorry if that sounds vague.
If the world is to move forward inevitable changes have to be made.

At the end of the day, the original idea was for us to trade, not to be ruled by Europe.

Do you honestly want someone in brussels to continue dictating to us that we should as an example allow millions of refugees into uk, jump to head of housing, pay them full benefits. When our own government is cutting
services to us the tax payers !! Pay millions of pounds to overseas yet cannot afford to keep the local meals on wheels to pensioners !

We need to regain control.

[nobby]

I'd like to leave Europe....... The Carribean sounds nice

[Chef Geoff]

I think there is scaremongering on both sides so whatever we hear or read it's good practice to and double check because as we all know statistics can be "bent" to make any ones case.
This is an article from the New Statesman which makes for compelling reading....
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/03/eu-explainer-easily-bored-cost-uk

But to answer your "Do you honestly want someone in Brussels to continue dictating to us" the answer is yes I'm European and it wouldn't matter to me if all countries in it lost their identity tomorrow but I've spent the majority of my working life working in different parts of the world so have seen the good and bad from which we could learn a thing or two.
We as a nation have never ever stood on our own people refer to pre EEC entry in the 70's as if we were so great the truth is we had for the previous 250 years relied on our Commonwealth for supplies and in time of war men this network has now gone its own way and isn't there simply to go back to.
If we were talking about "should we have gone in in the first place" then I would probably agree with you and say no but we did and to the average man on the street it's nationalism that will make up his mind not the practicalities of everyday life now.
The greater danger of coming out is Scotland voting again for independence as they want to remain in Europe and if they went they would take the bulk of the oil and gas along with them then we would suddenly be a rainy island just off the coast of France

[relicron]

Its the eu,that got our farmers in the state they are in,we was great Britain once,we can be again,this was our country once,lets wake up and get out,before we sink any further,come back enoch.

[dingdong]

Thanks Boris,that's another nail hammered into the ever rotting coffin of Europe
And another nail into the coffin and demise to a very feeble prime minister.
He keeps on saying that he's passionate about Britain,no,no,no he  just dosen't want to be known to be the prime minister who went down with miserable defeat on his hands,it was also for the same reason that he didn't want Scotland to get independence on his watch !!he didn't want to loose face,well it looks like he's going to !!...hip,hip !!!!and you know the next bit !!!👍