DetectingWales.com

Have been out to some new farms the last couple of days with the express interest of holding either a DW rally or inviting 6 - 10 people out for maybe a weekend on well researched farms that have a proven history. My God is it hard work. As I live in a farming community and know most of the neighbours I thought it would be pretty achievable. How wrong I was. I had three definites for a DW rally. Have still got two but found out today that a Club from South Wales has lost me one farm so am a bit peeved about that and PAULYWOW did this not happen to you just down the road two miles. Am well cheesed of as I promised to wait till the crop was off and wait until the autumn and did not offer a contract of any kind as again I had pretty much known them for all my life. Oh well lesson learned there and I felt it was a Bronze Age certainty due to the extensive crop mark evidence and number of flints found when I field walked. Today hammered it home even more as the two which I approached today I both knew well and both offered me detecting no problem but as soon as I mentioned a few friends straight in with would prefer just you. Some members have been very good to me on here and I want to return the favour on farms that will produce ( in my opinion ) luckily I have two near Lyonshall that are fine but have now approached well over thirty farms and have got two for Rallies. What I want to know is how much difficulty do other members have and is it really that cut throat in the world of gaining permission,

Hi Paul

Yes it is very difficult to get land and I would say metal detecting is a hobby for the very committed only (if you want to find more that shotgun caps, tubes, buttons etc).  I estimate that I have knocked most of the farms in my local area (Vale of Glamorgan) and that at least half the farmers will refuse your request because a, they already have people there, b, they just aren't interested in helping you, and c, their land is on an estate, and most estates are notoriously mean with their land and usually say no.  The other farms that let you on invariably let everyone else on too, and probably have done for at least 20 years, so although there will be interesting things there, you have to work bloody hard to find them.  Add to that the antics of night (and day) hawkers and the occasional club holding rallies on your hard won land and the future of metal detecting looks pretty bleak  :o.  But, Its not all bad, I have been lucky enough to find land that many (if any) people have not been on, and in short, have had a bloody good time there  ;D, but these farms really are few and far between.   I don't know about cut throat, but getting productive land is certainly difficult, and as I said, for the committed only. 

Hi Paul, Know what you must be feeling.  I was so fed up a few weeks ago I nearly chucked it all in. I've got 2 farms and a few fields to go on but all seem non productive except for a couple of buckles, buttons and a few coppers. The trouble with these farms is they're both dairy farms with no ploughed fields.
I decided I should do some proper research and I sorted out 2 potentially good farms. Went, cap in hand, and was politely 'put off'. Only politely, I think, because I'm female.
Must admit I was a bit gutted after all my efforts. After all, what harm could I do to their precious fields, one little old lady on her own ::)
Still I s'pose I'll bounce back and try again.

Val

hi paul,yep it did happen to me regarding land and other clubs,but does it mean there off bounds if the farmer wants a local chap tectin instead ;) ;D,,it is a bit cuthroat in this land grab business,but it shouldent be this way and belive that if a item is rescued from the soil it shouldent matter who finds it,i have lots of farms here and try to regulary take people on them and sometimes they do better than me ::) ;D but hey thats this crazy tectin lark....

I am OK for myself it is when you mention a few friends. Even though I grew up with them, played rugby, footie and cricket with them the thought of people they do not know seems to throw up this barrier saying Halt Go No Further. Do not push your luck. Now I wonder If I went back and talked bucks would it be different. I have had some fantastic days out with DW members and would like to return the compliment  as It is the least I could do. Win the lottery and buy Wiltshire or Dorset gotta be the answer. ;D

Now you're talking. ;D  S'pose we could move house. :o

Val

if you got hold of dorset and wiltshire youll have thousands of people running about on your estates ;D ;D ;D on serious note i phoned a farm a few weeks ago and he said he has a chap thats been tectin land for last 3 years,then he says,hang on ive got a 15 acre stubble field you can do, i usually  charge 20 quid for a day  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???.

hope you replied that you charge them £30 a day to show them the finds!

Hey, now you've got me thinking :o What a good way to suplement my pension. Do you think it's taxable ::)

Val

I have only ever been refused once when inviting a friend, which was none other than Neil, when the farmer point blank refused my request, the guy was odd anyway  ;D , but every other farmer has been fine with me taking small groups on his/her land.  I have never asked for a rally though, but I suppose the lure of cold hard cash for doing sod all would be appealing to most farmers.  I'll have to try it sometime  8)

It's annoying when they say no because they already have clubs/scouts promised, even though nobody ever goes near the fields.
Last March I did a bit of research and then made a ranked list of 20 farms in North Wales that had some history. I wrote in Welsh to 12 of them, saying why I wanted to go on their farm, offered money to charity and include my mobile no. and an SAE.
I got polite negatives from three, OKs from four and no replies from five. I thought it was a good return for my efforts. I got my no.1 ranked farm and the four farms total over 1200 acres - enough to keep me going for an year or two!
 

Hi all
I have had fairly good results from the "meeting the farmer" bit. I find a good chat about the history of their land and sometimes showing photos of the crop marks they have on there is a boon.

If you mention hoards and the value of the stuff you could find, they tend to be more cooperative. I make a point of finding out as much as I can about surrounding farms and throw a few names into the conversation so they know who else is cooperating with you, its almost like a personal recommendation. Most farmers are social animals, they talk to each other and share labour and machinery. Making sure you know about the crops they have and when they are likely to be clearing one crop to apply another can make them confident you are going to look after their property like stock and crops when you are around.

Always make sure they are aware of when you are on their land, and show them anything you find. Most of them arent interested in coins or bits of metal that have no modern use. I have come across the musket ball preference too. Show a farmer a load of roman coins, modern metal fragments from a detonated bomb or shell, hammered coins, modern decimal coins and a musket ball and they always go for the musket balls! Defeats me why but there must be something about the terminator in them that a big ball of lead has been shot from a gun and landed on their field that makes them interested in such a common object over a roman coin with so much history in it.

I have been on fields when animals have escaped from pens, and charged around a field with a farmer and his son getting them back under control. amazing how an etrac can look like a shepherds crook!

Having just had a successful rally in the Vale of Glamorgan on land I have researched and got permission from is a great feeling. It almost makes up for seeing the enormous hammered coins being found by someone else and not you! Almost.

Eric

Hmm, all I can say Is don't be put off; keep knocking and you will get farms.  I like the approach Meatslicer has by showing interest in the history of the area, this is something Mark and I do when we go out knocking and farmers can be quite receptive to this. I do occasionally mention I’m an archaeologist as this helps with some farmers (not all though). At the end of the day, in my opinion it’s just down to good old fashioned charm.

In all the years i have been detecting have tried written/telephone/ face to face requests and have NEVER had a positive result always a refusal. :o :o
The only time i have got land was when my in laws knew said farmers personally.
And this is not just locally its countrywide....must be me ugly mug lol

Yeah Paul I'm the same not the face lol  ;D, seems I mustn't be much of a writer or have the gift of the gab either. The farmers I have approached have said someone already detects there but they haven't seen them for ages?, or have the impresion that if they give you permission they will have loads digging up their land. Just cant win  ::)

you need to consider your approach when talking to farmers, first of all, find out what the work schedule is like, going to a farmer in the morning while hes just got up and is very busy is a bad idea, pestering him at lunch/dinner time is a bad idea, hes been working all day and wants to rest and eat, not talk to someone asking to detect his land. dont approach a farmer in his fields or in his milking sheds or his cereal sheds, hes too busy and is not interested in you at that time.
   its all about timing find out from locals the farmers name, so when you approach him in the evening is best, you can then drop a name of someone he knows, i.e mrs smith from the village said to pop up and see you, talk about the farm what he does there show an interest, then drop the bomb i was woundering if you would be so kind as to let me detect on your land from time to time, if he replies that he has someone, cut him off quickly and say ah thats no problem i wont interfere with other people, im just after some light excersise while im detecting, then change the subject again and comment on his farm or house etc... then continue to talk detecting, offer to help with anything on the farm, that usually goes down good, especially if u offer to help with bailing, offer to give him your phone number so he can call you if he needs help with anything, show willing and interest. most of all talk to the wife or children if any, get into a conversation about anything other than detecting, plan your conversation before you go to the farm, pre judge what he might say, and plan ur backup attack, dont stutter or pause to long trying to think of something to say, you have to be confident and fast talking.
  never mention friends will come with you, you can say your son or daughter may pop along one day, then once you have the farm in your detecting portfolio, you then start to butter the farmers wife up with chocs lol, now and then drop off a box of choclate to the wife or some sweets for the kids, pop along ot the farm from time to time not to detect but as a social visit to say hello etc...then work or friends in or a possible rally,

getting land really is all about your sales pitch and bravado, being able to manipulate someone into saying yes even though they want to say no because its easier for them

By the sounds of things, I'm not going to have much luck.  Just the thought of going knocking on a farmers door scares me because  knocking on a strangers door, you're usually met by a face that says 'What do you want? Why are you bothering me?'  Also, I don't have the gift of the gab, which I really wish I had.  I'll still try although I'm not holding out much hope. 
I would have thought that most farmers would love a rally if they knew they were going to gain financially. 

also never ever phone a farmer to ask to detect as its easier to say no on the phone, (edited by Admin) ...and on some forums ive seen a printable contract for a detectorist and a farmer to sign lol yer right , that has to be the most pathetic idea ive ever seen, farmers dont like signing contracts, brings back bad memories from the old subsidy days ....never use a written contract form ...

  approaching a farmer with the view to run a rally on his land is also difficult, as many rallies in the past have caused farmers alot of trouble, with rubbish left behind, holes not filled in, and the biggest killer the loss of an entire field or 2 ...due to foundations being found and reported, and cadw pop along and schedule the field and its never to be ploughed again or used in rainy periods where heavy cattle could churn it to mud, so the farmer loses part of his lively hood

  i know everyone wants to do the right thing according to the treasure act etc etc , but you have to stop and think of the dire consequences caused to the farmer and the future of available land too, its the metal detectorist that is going to ultimately destroy metal detecting  perfect example some 4 eyed fat slob was detecting on a farm here in Pembrokeshire and found some Roman items, then he found a wall footing under the ground, he ran off to claim his fame and reported it, the farmer lost 2 fields as it run under the boundary of another field so no more maze fields for the farmer, and now hes stopped everyone going on his land, if you go to him and ask if you can go on, its a straight f*** off and dont come back, and hes dam right to say it too, as hes lost 2 important fields that he used to grow maze on for winter feeding.
    but the worst thing about that whole affair, is that cadw dont have the money to excavate the site and it was covered over and left, so everyone loses out, its great to read the searcher mag and the TH magazine, but start reading the farming magazines also, then you will realise just how much trouble farmers are getting from all this scheduling and detecting rally s, then you will understand more as to why you are not getting on farms.. the latest Ludlow rally run by the lions club, totally scammed everyone they lied to the detectorists and to the farmer, he didnt get as much as he was promised, so where did the cash go, into some fat scamming slobs pocket that's where, so again metal detectorists are causing their own problems.

but on a lighter note if you live near milford haven, haverfordwest i can get you on some farms if your stuck for land, also newport in gwent i know 6 farmers up that way who will allow you on , as long as its no more than 2 people a time, or if you live further away and just want a days detecting pm me

Thing is Trojan as I said at the start. It is no problem for me as a single detectorist. I have basically got the green light at all farms I have tried as I went to school with most of them, played football with them, drank with them for the best part of thirty years. I live on a small holding in the middle of a farming community on the central Welsh borders where everybody knows everybody. What the fear seems to be is that people they don,t know and I think the fear comes from the large rise in theft in our area when one of the larger farms employed many Eastern Europeans. Two of these were caught in the act but we believe are not the brains in the outfit as the problem has not gone away. It is still the talk of any visit to the pub and we at home have just spent a small fortune upgrading our security. When this problem goes away I believe my neighbours will perhaps open up more but until then I think basically they will think that everyone is casing their property.

Ok you can put plenty of thought into your approach to a farmer but sometimes you are bound to get a negative even if you pitch well. Depends what perception a farmer has of us. And it can work the other way. I arrived in a farmyard to ask permission and the farmer was on his mobile to the vet. Two cows had died overnight and he was estimating his loss in ££s and the cost for the vet. No chance here I thought, he's got more important things to worry about, but I waited till he finished, couldn't really walk away. He listened to me, took me out of the farmyard, pointed out 2 stubble fields and wished me a good days detecting ! 

I found that once you get your first " no sorry" out the way it gets better. You try different approaches and with time you get that big " YES " . It dosen't bother me Knocking doors anymore. I have never had any farmer chase me or swear at me. You treat them as you would like to be treated yourself and have a laugh. What does bother me is I have been to a couple of farms where there is nobody there and doors have been left open and expensive tools littering about.. It only takes the wrong sort but why tempt fate.

I've thougt the same Ade. I've been to the door a few times, friends and foes, and found no one at home. Just the noisey dogs, not too much of a problem with them. Don't think they would stop a determined thief.
Has to be admitted they leave themselves wide open never mind the doors. ???
Had a yes for an area of land on condition I showd them the finds, whatever. I've saved everything :o and been back a couple of times, they're never in and the door isn't locked 'cause I've stuck my head in and shouted. ???
Val